E88. Slowing Down w/ Tamara Jackson—Decision-Making, Burnout, and Leading with Wisdom

Join us as we talk with Tamara Jackson about leading with wisdom in a world that rewards speed. She shares the GRASP method for better decision making, how to avoid regret, rework, and relational fallout, and why self-leadership and faith-filled integrity create durable results.

• costs of speed culture and why urgency misleads
• the three Rs: regret, rework, relational fallout
• the GRASP method for confident decisions
• 90-day planning and weekly measurement
• learning loops that turn failure into insight
• spotting burnout and building rest into schedules
• modeling self-care as a leadership signal
• living faith at work without compartmentalizing
• mentors and advisors as leverage for growth
• Beaconship and Lead Reviver resources

Visit Tamara's websites at beaconship.co and https://leadreviver.pro/ or on Facebook @ https://www.facebook.com/thebeaconship

Transcript

Meet Tamara And Her Mission

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Conversations, where today we have Tamara Jackson, the founder of Beaconship and Lead Reviver. Through Beaconship, Tamara equips founders to position themselves for funding using clarity, strategy, and the grass method, a framework for making high-stakes decisions with confidence. Through Lead Reviver, she helps organizations unlock hidden revenue and sustainability, building resilience that attracts both investors and long-term support. Welcome to the show. How are you today?

SPEAKER_01 0:35

I am doing excellent, Kelly. Thank you so much for the invitation and the opportunity to spend time with you and those that are hanging out with us today.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Absolutely. Tell us where you're coming to us from today.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

I am in Charlotte, North Carolina.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

All right. And how is the fall weather there so far? Here it is, mid-October.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

It's been interesting. You know, we are in that time of year here where it can start out really cool. Um, as the day progresses, it warms up. And then as we get into the evening, it cools down again. So you can typically tell when a person left the house by what they're wearing. Because you will see people with like long sleeves, a sweatshirt on. You'll also see people with t-shirts and shorts on. It's yeah, it's it's an interesting time of year for us, but I'm excited in some ways to embrace cooler weather. We've had a very warm summer in Charlotte.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

So yeah, let's bring on the fall. That's right. You know, I love when, and I'm in Florida, but there's still times when I could when I feel like it's sweater weather and I can put on some boots and I can feel like I'm back north.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Yeah, I I notice, you know, I visit Florida pretty frequently. And I notice when I go into the malls, I'm like, man, this is a totally different thing here. No matter when you go, it looks like summer.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

It is, it is, but this is beautiful weather. I mean, we are in the 80s, and it is absolutely beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

That is my sweet spot. Like, if if it could be, I know it might be, you know, and maybe I need to think about it, but in my mind, if it's 80 all the time, it's gonna be amazing. But then we just talked about I lose some of the benefits of of the season. So I think maybe it's just being grateful for where I am and what I absolutely am in to that.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Oh well, today we are going to be talking about some areas that you're passionate about. And I know when I talk to leaders, a lot of times we're talking about the need for growth, the need for speed, the need for success, but rarely about the cost that that takes, right? Because sometimes there's a toll on that. So I'd love to begin with about how many leaders they feel this pressure to move fast in today's world. And how can maybe slowing down actually help leaders and teams make better decisions?

The Three Rs To Watch

SPEAKER_01 3:03

You know, it's it's a really great question. As we start this conversation today, I'm fresh off of spending time with an amazing group of founders that came, some from Charlotte, some that flew in to be a part of a group. I'm blessed to be a part of the Charlotte Guild here. And the focus of the Charlotte Guild is redemptive entrepreneurship. So, how can I build a business that honors God, but not just an ethical business, but how can I take it the extra mile and actually create restoration through launching my venture? So, one of the things that we talked about, I'm blessed to be able to participate on a panel with some other amazing founders. And one of these things that we talked about was the pressure for speed. You know, we even talked about how, you know, when you are launching something, you're trying to go to market and you're trying to prove out that this is a viable product, that this venture is going to be successful. And especially when you start looking for investors, or you have someone, whether even if it's family and friends, that have pulled out their wallet and written a check, pressure starts to seep in. Like I've got to make this work and I need to make it work quickly because I need to repay this person. Here are the expectations, here's what I said we were going to accomplish. And so many times as entrepreneurs and even in the corporate setting, I reflect on my days there. You know, we've got to meet this deadline, we've got to get this project launched. No matter what setting we're in, we are often faced with the dilemma of is now the right time to move forward. And you know, in many settings, it feels like the answer is always yes, because you're looking at, you know, what you have available, the information that you have available, you're thinking about the other stakeholders that are involved in this and the potential consequences that you see of not moving forward right now. So the pressure is mounting to do something now. But one of the things that you kind of alluded to even in your question, Kelly is that there are sometimes side effects or consequences to speed. And I want to highlight those because I think when we're faced with those situations and it feels like we're in a dilemma, if we can just bring into the equation the potential consequences, it might help ground us in what the best next step is. So one of the things that I have learned as both as an entrepreneur and in the corporate space is that sometimes when you're moving too quickly, regret seeps in. So you've made a quick decision because you felt like you had to, and then you realize after that decision has been reached, that hey, I didn't have all the information that I needed to make this decision. If I had known that, I would not have made this decision. So also be thinking about is it possible that I could regret this decision later? The second thing that I want to talk about is rework. And rework was the enemy in corporate, and it's still the enemy if you are running your own business, because now all of those expenses to do rework are actually coming out of your profit, which means your ability to be successful with your venture, the ability for you to take care of your family is impacted by rework. And so one of the things that we don't think about sometimes is if I move too quickly with this, yeah, I might get it launch, I might develop the presentation, I might get the product out there, but what will be the cost of rework? Because if I have to do it again and again and again, then all of a sudden, all of the reasons that I made the decision thinking that this was going to be the best path, maybe it's not, because the cost of rework can be really, really high. So regret, rework. And then the third piece that I want to bring into the equation, which I think can often be underestimated, is relational fallout. So sometimes in our quest for speed, one of the things that I can see kind of fall to the wayside is just not thinking about the impact to people. Sometimes things look good on paper, the numbers look amazing, but thinking about how it's going to impact people can make a difference in whether you go this route or this route, right? So I think when we slow down, it gives us the opportunity to kind of do that triple check to consider these other areas before we move forward. Because sometimes the fastest path to the right solution is the slower one.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

And and I noticed that regret, rework, and relational fallout are all ours. Or they are. So the three R's.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

We have to remember those. I'm a fan of trying to make it easy to remember.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

I like that. I like that. So, how do you help leaders and teams assess those?

Building A Repeatable Decision Process

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Yeah, I think I think Kelly, the key thing is to really develop a process, a consistent, repeatable process that you can use to make sure that you're being thoughtful in how you make decisions. And sometimes it can be relatively quick. I think that's the other misconception that by slowing down, it means moving at a snail's pace. It doesn't always. I think the key is just making sure that you're almost creating a checklist for yourself to make sure that you've asked the right questions, that you've done the right due diligence. And then when you have the confidence that you you have, then you can move move forward with your decision. Now, it doesn't mean that it's going to be the perfect decision. I like to give that disclaimer up front because there's always things, no matter how much due diligence that we do, there is there are always things that we do not know. So instead of aiming for the perfect decision, Kelly, I encourage leaders to aim for the best decision, the best decision that I was able to make based on the information that I had available and taking the time to ask the questions. So when I talk about that consistent, repeatable process, it's been a journey for me. I'm a person that likes to make quick decisions. So getting to this place where I'm now slowing down is very countercultural from the environment that I grew up in corporate, from all of the coaching and mentoring that I've had as an entrepreneur. It is the complete opposite of what I have been taught. And so my ability to execute on slowing down was hampered by the fact that it was my default to move quickly. So thankfully, just like gave you the three Rs, kind of got this divine download of hey, you need a process to be able to follow to kind of make sure that you're moving through all of the appropriate steps. And that's what I teach leaders to do with the grass method is let's take all of these things that we need to evaluate and let's give it a process, move through the process. Sometimes you'll move quickly through steps, sometimes it'll take a little bit more time, but ask yourself those critical questions, create the space to evaluate this decision before you move forward.

The GRASP Method Unpacked

SPEAKER_00 10:41

And so, what does the acronym GRASP stand for?

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Yeah, so we're we're gonna kind of try to keep it simple. So I'll go through each letter of the acronym and then certainly open to any questions you have as you want to dig deeper. So the G stands for gather. So I think of that as gathering information. So it could be that you're looking at numbers, it could be looking at your data. How has revenue been going from month to month? How does it compare with last year? But it isn't always that hard data. Sometimes it can be asking questions to gather information from someone that may know more about this. You know, as we lead teams and we run businesses, the reality is sometimes we're not the one that is actually doing the day-to-day work. So we may need to connect with someone else that has more intimate knowledge of it and gather more information from them about the situation. But but there's also the intuitive piece. You know, I have, as I've embraced this process, Kelly, realized that sometimes the gathering is simply watching what is happening around me, what patterns and behaviors am I seeing uh both in the organization, in my team, or in the people that I'm around. Sometimes it's just being very aware, that situational awareness. What am I seeing? What am I feeling? So for me, it starts with gathering information. The second step is to reflect. And I'll be transparent. This has been one of the hardest for me to execute, not because I don't see the value in reflection, but again, because of that pressure to move quickly. Reflection means that you have to slow down long enough to actually say, okay, like I've gathered this information. What can I glean from this? What's hitting me? Where might I still have questions? That's another piece. Like I might have gathered information, but until I take this time to reflect, I might not realize that there's still some holes in this. There are other things that I need to know. So for me, that reflection step, and for the leaders that I'm honored to consult with, that step is critically important. And many times it means that I might have to let that thing sit maybe for an hour and come back to it. Sometimes I need to sleep on it and come back to it. And I'm amazed at how many times when I create that space, I realize, wait, what about this? So that reflection piece is critically important to kind of make sure that you're not missing anything. If you're a person of faith, you know, it maybe there will be something that God will speak to you that you haven't even considered. Or I just find that when we create that space, we're amazed sometimes at just creating that focus and creating the opportunity for other thoughts to drop in our mind can be really powerful. The next step is to ask. And so for me, that is also an opportunity to improve because sometimes, you know, we think we already have the answer. I've gathered the information, I reflected, I'm ready to go. But ask for me means, hey, I need to slow down and make sure, again, I'm not missing something. So maybe I need to ask guidance from someone that's been down this road before, a mentor, a coach that has that experience that they can bring to the table that simply I don't have. If you're a person of faith, it's also asking for that divine guidance. Lord, am I missing anything? Is there anything else that I need to investigate? Is there anything else that I need to ask? So just being humble enough is what I really think about that ask step to say, you know what? I might not have everything that I need to make this decision. And I've just found value in allowing people to poke holes in my thought process and my idea. Now that can be hard, especially if it's your baby because you want to protect it. At the same time, when we think about that our goal is to truly make an impact, it's actually better to have someone poke holes in your idea earlier rather than later, because the sooner that you're aware of any holes that might exist, or even if you don't see it as a whole, maybe it's an objection. It's something that another person would look at it differently. Just having the opportunity to prepare to be able to speak to that, to say, you know, I've already worked through that, and here's how we're going to mitigate that risk. Knowing that earlier rather than later can make a huge difference in how fast you're ultimately able to go. Right. So I think it takes some humility to ask others to kind of weigh in. The next step is to strategize. And I like to say, Kelly, to strategize wisely because you can come up with a strategy, but it doesn't mean it is rooted in wisdom. So part of the prior three steps helps us to kind of get in alignment with the fact that, hey, I don't want to just make a rash decision. I want to make a well-thought-out decision. So based on the information I've gathered, creating the time to reflect, asking others for guidance. Now let's put together a strategy, but also encourage myself and other leaders to kind of bounce that strategy off some other people. Hey, you know, we talked about earlier this problem that we're having. Here's the direction that I'm thinking of going in. Is there anything that you can see that is missing? Is there anything else that I might want to consider? Again, giving others the opportunity to speak into the strategy that you're creating can also be tremendously valuable. One of the things that I found helpful is having a board of advisors. You know, in the nonprofit space, we often talk about a board of directors, but a board of advisors can be present for anyone, whether they are leading in corporate, running their own business, or even in a nonprofit space, they may not have the decision in terms of, you know, you know, is this motion carried or not? But it gives people an opportunity to be able to advise you and to pull together people that have varying expertise, areas that you may feel that you're good in, but also some where they might be opportunities or blind spots for you. So being able to have that board of advisors to weigh in on your strategy could save you those three R's that we talked about earlier. And then the last thing, the P is for proceed. So we've done our best at this point to do everything that we can to make sure that we're going down the right path. So now we have to take action. So one of the risks to slowing down and doing all of this is getting to a place where, oh my gosh, I'm paralyzed. I'm not gonna do anything because I'm kind of caught in that desire to be perfect. But I believe that one of the ways that we get feedback is by taking a step. And the market is gonna tell us what they think about our plan, um, you know, our, you know, our product or whatever the case may be. We're going to get feedback from folks that we can use to ultimately iterate. And I think that's another piece of this, is just because I'm slowing down, just because I'm going through those steps, doesn't mean that it's going to be perfect. It does mean that I've done my best to get started on the right path. But this is a continual process where always asking myself the question, what other information do I need in order to move through the next step? So I'm continually going through that grasp process, taking action many times, a small action. That's another thing that I've learned is sometimes we get ahead of ourselves because we're trying to create the 12-month plan. And maybe I just need to focus on the next 90 days. So proceed, proceed confidently, knowing that you've done your best, but also recognize that you can recover. If something gets off track, you now have a consistent, repeatable process to figure out where things are maybe lacking and develop a strategy rooted in wisdom on how you can move forward.

From Plan To Action Without Paralysis

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Oh I love that process that you just unpacked. And I can see where leaders who are go, go, go would have an opportunity to slow down and it might be uncomfortable for them. And especially, you know, that reflection part and the ask, from my experience, that's where leaders do, they struggle with that. They really do. And when it comes down to like decision making, I'd like to maybe go there for a minute because you can go through a process and then ultimately there has to be a decision. And that decision, we need to know who is the decision maker ultimately, right? So when maybe when you are in your experience, when you've worked with a team and they're going through this, what does that look like for decision making for a team and a project? They have to get to a decision. What's your experience with that? Like, how can you help a team get to a decision?

Learning Through Failure And Iteration

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yeah. I think it goes back to realizing that where we are isn't working. Yeah, normally we are at a point of making a decision because something is not aligning with expectations, right? And so the reality is that continuing to do the same thing and expecting to get a different result is truly insanity. Like, and unless God miraculously intervenes, that's not gonna happen, right? And and there's certainly always space for divine intervention. I think the key is to ensure that we have done our part. And I think of it as a partnership, right? So, yes, there are some things that only divine intervention can accomplish, and then there are some things that only we as people have the ability to decide, leveraging our will to decide to take action and move forward. So I think Kelly, it first starts in hey, why are we in here? Why are we having this discussion to begin with? We're having it because what we're what has currently been done is not working. So staying here is not an option. Secondly, it is what is the step that we can take, the lowest risk step that we can take in the direction that we think don't know 100%, but the the step that we can take in the direction that we think is going to move the dial. So I mentioned earlier that I think sometimes we create stress for ourselves and get ahead of ourselves by creating this 12-month plan where I have seen successes, hey, let's just focus on the next 90 days. What do we want? What small this is a small milestone. What would progress look like in 90 days? Where would we like to be 90 days from now? And uh yeah, I guess as a visionary, you know, it often comes back to vision for me is like, let's get a picture of where we want to be 90 days from now, and now let's back into it. What are the things that we would need to do in order to get to that space? And again, keeping it simple, Kelly, I think you know, we can come up with a list of 10 things that's gonna be overwhelming. We're probably not going to do all of those things well. So I'm a huge fan of let's come up with three things that we need to do that we think are going to drive that. There may be some uh subtopics under that, but let's make it easy for everyone to understand what the goal is, how we're going to get there, and how we're measuring success. So, what is that? One, where we are isn't working. Two, where do we want to be 90 days from now? Three, what are three steps that we can take in that direction? And I think that if we can get those three things done, then we can move from that uh state of paralysis and start taking action in the direction. Now, we also are going to come back together and see how do we do versus our plan? And we should be looking at our progress versus that plan on a weekly basis. I think measuring is critically important. Sometimes, you know, it's it's easy to create this plan and just kind of like, okay, we're just gonna keep following this plan until the 90 days is up. But what we really should be doing is looking at how we're progressing against that plan on a weekly basis. That's gonna give us information to say, yeah, it makes sense to keep going in this direction, or hmm, maybe we might want to make a few tweaks because for the last four weeks, we haven't seen movement in this area. So now I need to go back through that process again. Well, what data do I have? And what might I need to know? What might I need to dig deeper into to figure out how to solve this? Because I'm not seeing the progress that I was expecting. So that's my thought on you know, how do I get to a place of action, realizing that it's going to be a journey that I'm going to going to continue to be iterating as I go through the process.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

And you know what, Tamara? It's always that there's learning in there. So even if it's not working, right? Even if you get down the road, you know, you're four weeks in and you're realizing that you're not working, never discount all that learning, right? That's taking place.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Oh, that's huge. I mean, if you think about many people that are successful have failed many times before they get to this success. And I would argue, and I think uh many of them, as you look, I'm a huge fan of understanding people's stories. So whether that's through reading a book that they've written, an article about them, or listening to a podcast, one of my favorites is how I built this with Guy Raz. I love it because these people that we admire, that lead these multi-million and sometimes billion-dollar companies unpack how they got to where they are. And the consistent threat is I failed over and over and over again. But as you have said, Kelly, I learned from each of those failures, and it really is all of that failure that helped me to figure out what was going to ultimately work. So John Maswell says, sometimes I win and sometimes I learn. And I think that's such a valuable point as you have brought up here, Kelly, is that even if we don't make the progress that we thought we would make, even if the problem isn't completely solved, there are going to be things that we learned from that experiment, if you will, that help us to refine our pro uh our hypothesis and be able to launch the experiment again. And ultimately, that's what creates the success that we are looking for. You think about Thomas Edison and all of the failed experiments that he had to go through before it finally worked. We are not immune to that. It is a part of the journey, and it is our response to those learning opportunities that ultimately will determine where we get whether we're whether or not we get to where we want to be.

Spotting And Preventing Burnout

SPEAKER_00 26:48

And sometimes, Tamara, those those learnings end in burnout, right? You're going and going and going, and so many leaders have experienced it. And and perhaps they they don't even realize they're on the cusp of burnout. So, what say you about that?

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Yeah, no, that that's real. I mentioned the group that I was honored to be a part of on yesterday, and that was one of the things that we talked about. We actually talked about self-care as leaders. How do we take care of ourselves so that we can properly take care of our teams, our businesses, and and I would even argue for those that you know are married or have kids, your ability to be there for your spouse and and and for your kids. And one of the things that that I shared that I think is so important is realizing that great leadership starts with good self-leadership. Sometimes we're really, really good at putting the focus on others. And I have found that one of the best ways that we can support others is taking care of ourselves. And so that means that there has to be, even though there are all of these things that are going on, there has to be a routine, there has to be a ritual where you can pull away from all the things that are trying to get your attention and create space for yourself to recharge. Now that's gonna look different for everyone. For me, one of the things that I love doing to recharge is getting out in nature. So I might do a hike or go to a waterfall or take my dog out, you know, some something along those lines that helps me to recharge. For others, it may be, you know, more of an adventure, you know, hanging out with the people that you love. Sometimes people feed off the energy of others. So the question I think that we have to ask ourselves as leaders is what do I need in order to be whole, to be able to be my best self for those that I that I lead and I serve. And then what how can I create space in my schedule for that? Now that's where it often gets challenging because our schedules are so packed with all the other things that we're responsible for that we are ultimately nowhere in our schedule. And so that's where I often find both for myself and for those that I'm honored to work with, is it starts with, hey, we're going to have to re-evaluate this schedule. Some of these things might need to come off. Either we're going to stop doing them, or they can need to continue being done, but maybe you are not the person to do it. So sometimes it's delegating, sometimes it's deleting it, and sometimes it's delaying it. Yeah, maybe it should be done, but does it have to be? Done right now because if you are not taking care of yourself, you are going to hit a wall that wall called burnout, and then you're not going to be able to effectively serve anyone. So it's one of those things that you have to prioritize and take a proactive stance so that you're not in a reactive position after you've already burned out.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

My gosh, yes. And it is so imperative for leaders at the top to be modeling what self-care looks like.

Modeling Rest And Rewriting Schedules

SPEAKER_01 30:33

That came up too. Because it's it's uh it's often easier to tell someone to do it than to model it. Um, but it it's true. I I don't have you know my own children. I am blessed to have a God daughter. And one of the things that I realized pretty early is that she pays more attention to what I do than what I say, and I think that's also true for the the teams and the people that we're honored to leave. We can say it, that's right, but people are going to pay attention to what we do. So for me, it's it's actually part of the motivation. It's like, hey, I need to make sure that I'm doing this because I know that others are looking to me to set the tone, to set the pace. So if I'm not doing it, then that actually decreases the chance that those that I lead are going to do it. And so it's it's it's one of those things where it can be challenging, it is for me, uh, quite honestly. But what I have found, I think the other piece of this, Kelly, is you have to be able to recognize that there is value in this until you value stepping away, slowing down, creating space for yourself to recharge, you will not do it. And many times what's happening is we're minimizing the value of it. We're telling ourselves, oh, yeah, I can do that later. It's more important that I get this done. And so one of the things that really helped me was to have someone in my life that was holding me accountable for incorporating that rest. And they would ask me on a weekly basis, did you, you know, did you take your rest? And for me, it it started in a uh sequential kind of process. Like it wasn't like, oh, I'm gonna take this whole day off. It was like take four hours off. And then four hours somewhere. You gotta start somewhere. So then four hours grew to, okay, now that six hours, eight hours, and then it eventually got to, okay, I'm gonna have a 30-minute, you know, spot in my day when I take this break. It it's not an all or nothing. I think that also can be something that discourages us from doing it is we feel like I failed if I haven't done it exactly like this person did it. And I think we have to find, kind of like we talked about earlier, what is a step that I can reasonably, you know, count on myself to take. Because what you don't want to do is create something where your chances of sticking to it are low because that ultimately erodes your confidence. So then you stop believing yourself. And that's a really dangerous place to be because then you don't trust yourself anymore because you've let yourself down so many times. So I think it starts with setting a goal for yourself of taking that break or that rest, whatever it looks like for you, being able to step back and see how did it impact me? What are some of the positive impacts of taking that rest? That will help your perception of its value. And then the more you value it, the more you will make time for it.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Right?

SPEAKER_01 33:57

That's the way that's the way that it's worked in in my life, is it I had to be able to see it until I could see it, until I could feel the difference. The chances of me actually doing it were really low.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

All right, sounds good, but dot dot. Right. And there's always gonna be something, like you said, on the calendar, on the to-do list, but it is up to us to find what uniquely, you know, is meaningful for us and how we recharge. Absolutely.

Faith At Work Without Compartmentalizing

SPEAKER_01 34:29

Yeah, it's always good. There's always gonna be something, you know. That's one of the things I can still remember a time in corporate, and I wish I could say that I immediately learned from this person's counsel and stopped doing it, but it unfortunately it's not true. But I remember the first team that I was ever leading. So this would have been, gosh, 2006. I remember, you know, I was getting in early and I was going hard all day and I was staying late. So then it was not uncommon for me to get there at 7 a.m. And at 7, 8, I'm still there, right? So there was another leader that just their day started at a later time because we were in a call center environment, and so we needed coverage, so they would come in at 11. And so, because her schedule started at 11, you know, her schedule was such that seven o'clock is the time. So she's like, Why are you still here? And Kelly, I would tell her and show her, here are all the things that I still have to do. And she listened and she didn't really say anything too much that first time. But then as time passed, you know, she noticed this pattern like you're here every day to seven and eight o'clock. And I'm like, yeah, yeah. She's like, What are you doing here? And again, I've got this, this, this, and this. And she said to me, like, it's all there's always going to be something. You're never going to finish. And what I was telling myself is if I stay longer, if I get here early, if I keep doing this, eventually, like, I'm gonna get to the bottom of my to-do list, I'm gonna be caught up and I'm gonna be done. And she's like, Damn, you've clearly proven that that's not true. Because for the last four weeks, you have been here till seven or eight o'clock, and you're still not like, don't you realize that it's never going to be done? And I heard her, Kelly, but I didn't, I didn't really find value in what she said yet. And so I just continue to do that. Like, I'm gonna eventually catch up. And it took sadly, it took some years before I realized, you know what? She's right. I like there is no finish. And once you can come to terms with the fact that you will never get to the bottom, your basket, your email box will never be completely empty, even if you accomplish it, an email will come in two minutes later. Once you accept that, that is a part of being able to get to a place where you can step away, is no matter how hard you work, no matter how many hours you put in, there is always going to be something else. And so knowing that, what is the best thing that I can do? Because I can't work 24 hours a day, seven days a week, not and be healthy. I can't. So then if working 24-7 wouldn't get me to where I want to be, then maybe I should think about creating some space so that I can recharge, so that I can rest and I can be as productive as I can be during the hours that I work. That's one of the other truths that I had to face is I started realizing, hey, yeah, I'm here, but I'm not as productive. I'm not as effective as I was earlier in the day. So I started to realize that there really is a sweet spot for me of the time of day that I should work and how long I should work before I take a break. And again, it's like collecting evidence. Like you have to almost prove to yourself that there is value in this. And once you prove it to yourself, then you will make space for it. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

And somebody needs to hear that word today. I know that. So thank you for that. Oh, well, I have enjoyed listening about the grass method, decision making, burnout. And before I give you the last word, I would just love to hear, you know, as you've witnessed as a Christian, I hear that, you know, in your in your speaking to me and and on this podcast and the work that you do. And it's always like the million-dollar question that people that I I speak to in my circles that they're always asking, like, how do you go into a corporate workspace and still be Christian? Like, what does that look like? Yeah. Love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

I, you know, for me, Kelly, that there is no such thing as compartmentalization. So who I am is who I am, no matter what space I am in. The environment may dictate some of my language. So if I'm in a corporate environment, you know, I may not reference divine intervention or divine downloads like I did in our conversation today. But Tam is still Tam. That's right. So the way that I operate, the way that I make decisions, the way that I lead is going to be the same. And I have just found I spent 25 years in a corporate space. So I found during that time that it wasn't so much what I did to draw attention to my faith, it was how I showed up, how I did my work, things that I was willing to be a part of and that I wasn't willing to be a part of that actually became the light in the space. And so I think what we can sometimes do is feel like we have to have the Jesus bumper sticker on for people to realize that we're a Christian. And I've just found that our life is one of the best testimonies, one of the best ways to draw people to you and to have them want to learn more about man, how are you able to keep your cool in these situations? I mean, that person was way out of line in what they said to you. I can't believe that you didn't go off on them or say something back. I can even remember an instance that I know that it's probably been how 10 or 15 years ago now, but it it was actually a situation where I was wrong. And I having a bad day in a meeting, said something in anger to someone, and and and I I was like, oh my god, like I just totally ruined, totally ruined it. You know, everybody here knows I'm I can't believe I did that. And again, I wish I could say that immediately after that meeting, I made it right. I did not, I went home and I tried to rationalize, oh well, you know, they, you know, they had it coming because there were some things that they said that weren't exactly kosher either, right? But as is often the case, when there's something that you really need to do, it keeps nudging at you. And it's like, hey, you know, you really need to go back and make that thing right. So get back to work the next day, pull pull this gentleman aside and say, Hey, you know, I just want to apologize for you know what I said and how I said to you yesterday. And Kelly looked at me like, what? I was like, you know, remember when we were in the meeting and I said he's like, oh, don't worry about it. I I don't even remember it, right? But it's it's those things where many people would just keep it moving and say, you deserved it. I had a right, I was having a bad day. Give yourself a pass instead of being willing to put yourself in a situation where there's some vulnerability and saying, Hey, I was wrong, I made a mistake. I have found that those things have made more of a difference in the workspace than preaching or having my Bible on my desk or all of those things. So I say just be who you are. And when you do that, there is a light that will emanate from what you're doing, and people are always drawn to light, they will want to understand why you do the things that you do or don't do some things that others do, and and that is one of the best things that you can do.

Final Advice And Resources

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Thank you for sharing that. And I I I share your philosophy on that. So I I appreciate you so much today and and your words, and I would love to give you the last word as we close. So, what say you, Tamara Jackson?

SPEAKER_01 43:32

What say I? Well, I just first want to thank you, Kelly, for the opportunity to to share and to speak with your community. It's it's been an honor and a privilege to be here. And I I hope that there has been something that has been said that will help you and your goals as a leader to continue to grow and to make an impact. The the one thing that I would love to leave with the audience is that one of the things that's helped me most as a leader is to have examples to look at and to follow. And so if you're listening, you know, thinking about some of the things that we've shared today, you're like, man, I know that that's an area that I need to grow in. Don't feel like you have to figure it out on your own. Identify someone that can be a resource for you, that can be a mentor, whether you actually meet them in person or you read a book that they've written, you listen to their podcast. Find someone that is already doing well in an area that you aspire to grow in and leverage their strengths and leverage their insights in order to grow. For me, one of the ways that I do that is through a podcast that I'm honored to host called The Beacon Show, by being able to bring on leaders in faith spaces that are making a difference in the nonprofit world, leading for-profit businesses, and even in areas like entertainment and film. And I learned so much from hearing their stories, how they navigate the dilemmas that they face in their personal and professional life. And even though I am hosting the show and leading the conversation, much like you've done here today, Kelly, I always walk away from those conversations like, wow, man, I need to put, I need to put that in place. I that that's something that I just learned is gonna make me better. So spend time with people that are a little bit further along the way than you are, um, because you are going to find that just by spending time with them, you are going to grow. You are going to evolve into that leader that you've always wanted to be. So if following leaders of faith and hearing um how they have navigated the dilemmas of leadership is something uh that is of interest to you, I'd love for you to visit our website at beaconship.co. Um, and then you also mentioned I'm honored to lead Lead Reviver, which is an AI engagement platform. And what's interesting about AI is there's often people that are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I see the power of AI. And others are like, oh no, I can't use that, right? It is very rare that a person is in the middle. But one of the things that I have found, Kelly, is that just like anything, whether we're talking about money or AI, it's a tool and it can be used for good or it can be, you know, in the wrong hands. So at Lead Revivor, we believe in using AI for good, using it to help uh businesses grow revenue, um, and in a nonprofit space, being able to raise funds to help advance their mission. Um so this, if that's something you'd like to learn more about, I'd love for you to visit us at leadrevivor.pro. Again, Kelly, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity uh to share with your audience and to spend time with you today.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

Absolutely. All right. Well, you heard it here, folks. Tamra Jackson. Until next time, you keep doing great things and we'll see you soon. Bye bye.