E86. Redefining Sales: From Cringe to Connection w/ Alex Gabbert

What if everything you thought you knew about sales was wrong? Alex Gabbert, Brand Communications Director at Publicity For Good, challenges conventional wisdom by redefining sales as "the transfer of energy and certainty that solves a need." Far from the pushy stereotypes we've come to expect, Alex reveals how authentic sales is fundamentally about helping people.

• Sales is simply the transfer of energy and certainty that solves a need your product/service provides
• Creating relationships starts with being present and truly listening without thinking about what to say next
• You only control three things in sales: your attitude, your words, and your pace of work
• Rejection triggers the same brain response as physical pain, but embracing "no" leads to greater success
• 80% of deals happen after someone initially says "no"
• Don't practice on prospects—prepare and rehearse objection handling before client conversations
• Purpose-driven PR helps positive stories reach the right audiences and combats media negativity
• The ability to be "positively contagious" transcends sales roles and applies to all leadership positions

Visit publicityforgood.com to learn more about how they help purpose-driven brands tell their stories, or connect with Alex at https://publicityforgood.com/  for sales leadership resources and training.

Alex shares more information on the after show following the podcast.

Transcript

Introduction to Alex Gabbard

Speaker 1 0:00

All right well, welcome to Conversations where today we have Alex Gabbard, brand Communications Director of Publicity for Good, a PR firm that has amplified over 400 purpose-driven brands globally. He has a 10-year background in scaling sales teams in both business-to-business and business-to-consumer. Alex is a multi-time National award winner in sales and leadership. Alex is the father of two. You have a boy and a girl under the age of three. You are a busy leader, alex. Welcome to the show. How are you today?

Speaker 2 0:37

I'm doing great. Dr Kelly, Thank you so much for having me on. I'm excited to be here.

Speaker 1 0:41

Yeah, how is Nashville treating you I?

Speaker 2 0:45

tell you what, before we moved our headquarters here, I had never driven through Nashville, I had never been here on vacation, so I had no idea what to expect. We had been living in Las Vegas for the last five years, but I grew up on a farm in North Dakota, so I love outdoors and greenery. I got here and it's heaven and it's heaven, no joke. This morning I was having coffee on the porch and there were deer in my front lawn. I was just like, oh, great people, beautiful environment, great food, no complaints. It's been a couple of months here now, but I like it a lot.

Speaker 1 1:23

I hear that a lot from people who move there. It's just they love Nashville. Who knew it is the place to be? Well, today we're going to be talking about sales and leadership and from my experience and we had this conversation before about how people really, when they think of sales, they think of you know, cringy, and they may be building a business or part of an organization. They never realize that sales is actually part of what they do. And I'd love to hear how sales has been a passion for you, like where did that even come from?

Redefining What Sales Really Is

Speaker 2 2:05

oh my goodness, I think, how sales has been a passion for you. Like, where did that even come from? Oh my goodness, I think sales really ties into everything. But I guess, segueing into the redefinition of sales, sales has given me everything. I grew up an introverted farm kid, right, I didn't know what I was going to do, and it has given me confidence. It has allowed me to travel the world. It has let me live opportunities that most people you know wouldn't think are possible. It has allowed me to impact the lives of others and therefore their families. It has allowed me to put a positive ripple into the world.

Speaker 2 2:44

I love sales, so I will happily dive into the stigmas and the fun things that get, I would say, like negatively glamorized, you know, in movies. I mean, it's funny, right, you see the used car salesman kind of thing. I get it. You know I get the hard pushy person. But I think it would make sense to let's define what sales is okay.

Speaker 2 3:18

What sales actually is is the transfer of energy and the transfer of certainty that solves the need that your product or service provides, that leads to the outcome that your service provides. Okay, I don't sell. Okay I, I help people. I would not do something or represent something that I didn't know in my bones, that I could talk about with conviction and be able to lay my head down at night knowing that I put positive things into the world? Right, but in the journey of a sales professional, are you going to come across some weird offices and things like people come and go or products come and go Right. But at the end of the day, you're developing a skillset that you're going to have for the rest of your life Right. That allows you to be a positive leader in your home. Right. Talking about the transfer of energy, the transfer of certainty Okay, can I ask you a question? Sure Does. Does it feel good to?

Speaker 1 4:32

buy things, yes. Does it feel good to be sold to? Uh, so there's a difference there. No, no, it feels dirty yeah it does feel dirty and I, and I, totally I, I will put a wall up. If somebody is trying to sell me something, of course you will.

Speaker 2 4:47

Anyone would right, that's human nature. Okay, being a sales professional is like being a good host. Okay, I'm going to invite people to my home and then say, would you like something to drink? Okay, well, human nature is now going to be. Well, I'm good. Thank you, appreciate it, I'm okay for now. Right, they want something to drink. Right, body is made of 70% water. So I would say, hey, guys, feel free to make yourself at home. Would you prefer water or lemonade? Right, totally different. But now I'm becoming easy to accept it from right, but accepting that it feels good to buy things that you've worked hard for, feeling terrible to be sold to. So how do I have a conversation in which we kind of uncover why we're here in the first place, what problems there are, if this realistically solves your problem right, and oftentimes, when people are making a decision that's for the betterment of themselves, there's a component of fear a component of what if this doesn't work?

Speaker 2 6:09

right? It's like how do you become the person in a conversation, right, who is sharp enthusiastic, an expert in your field where? Imagine this if you walk into a doctor's office and you tell the doctor yeah, my, my knee's been making this weird popping noise, right, and it hurts all the time. But the doctor looks at you then and says, cool, put your arm in this sling for six months and then, right, you're gonna be like what are you?

The Art of Building Relationships

Speaker 2 6:46

talking about gonna get a different doctor, okay. Sales is also the art of being present in the moment and truly listening to what the person is saying, because oftentimes in a conversation you can tell when someone is just thinking about what they're going to say next. Right, they start speaking immediately when you stop speaking. Is it enjoyable to speak to that person? Probably not, right, but it's also not a vanity metric. Getting good at this gives you the bandwidth to help more people, right, and I get that. Probably listeners are saying, yeah, well, I'm doing all these other components of my business, you know, and I'm not a salesperson, right, okay, well, let's look at humor. Let's look at the room around you right now, if you're listening to this. Okay, the land that you're on right now, the building that you're in, the components that it's made of, the utility that's powering the light in the room that you're in right now. Right, the style that went into the carpet. All of these different things came from someone's ability to create commerce out of thin air.

Speaker 1 8:19

It's crazy. It is crazy and we're so apt to buy even we're giving our dollars to people that we don't even have a relationship with many times. And so it seems like when I look at you, I'm like you are not a used car salesman, you are not a hardcore, you know. Buy this. You are just about developing relationship and, like you said, really listening. Now, what is the problem that a person needs or an organization has? And so what you are saying is totally different than somebody who's looking at sales as one of those icky, icky type things.

Speaker 2 9:06

And I like that A hundred percent. Cause, when you begin a conversation with a stranger, right, it only, it behooves both of you to have a great ability to be able to quickly develop a relationship, right? Where does that start with? Okay, there are only three things that you're really in control of when it comes to selling. Okay, everyone thinks complicated problems have complicated solutions. Nope, not in this case. Okay, all that you're really in control of is your attitude, which I'm a firm believer is a choice, but that's a whole different conversation. The words that come out of your mouth and the pace in which you work. That's it, okay.

Speaker 2 9:54

So, really, polishing and understanding, prior to entering an engagement, exactly all of the objections you're going to hear right From a sales professional, understanding exactly how to overcome them. To get to the actual reason, because people don't enter a conversation or an engagement in sales without hoping that that is the solution to whatever it is that they're dealing with. They want you to be the one, right, but at the same time, they're going to test you, right? So let's say you are running a sales team, right, I have some golden rules on any team that I run. It's better to stay here, let's see, forget right.

Speaker 2 10:43

Integrity is number one. If you lie, cheat or steal like it's not even a conversation that we have, actually you're not on the sales team. But another is that you don't practice on prospects. I get consulted often where people will reach out to me and say, hey, can you just help me tune up this? Or how do I measure key performance indicators within my business to understand what could be better? And all of the practice that they're doing is on their customers. You know like that is such a silly thing to do and such an opportunity costs for a business. So like golden rule being don't practice on customers. So I'll provide materials of everything for that that you could run into. I don't overcome it to get to the truth. But at the end of the day, if you don't have the ability to genuinely communicate, create a space where someone can be vulnerable to share. No one just opens up to a stranger.

Speaker 1 11:51

Usually Right. No one just opens up to a stranger, usually right, um, and we have two ears and one mouth for a reason. That's right. We sure do. You know, as you're sitting here talking, I'm thinking about you. You know, like you said, people don't typically open up. I think it even in sales. You have to create that space and the work that I do. I have to create the space where someone feels welcome, that you're not going to be threatened by anything, by the conversation or by trying to develop a relationship. What does that look like for you in sales and creating that space for, hopefully, the work you know, the sale to be had and the work to be done.

Speaker 2 12:34

In creating that space. Okay, do a little slideshow in your head of what you picture as a salesman. Okay, is that person serious and hard-nosed? Are they fast talking at you? Are they doing one of the you know, climbing things with their hands, right? All those type of things.

Embracing Rejection and Growing Stronger

Speaker 2 12:56

The art of being polished while not taking yourself so seriously is so important. Like, you're allowed to have fun while you sell. You don't need to go into this, you know. Whatever you may perceive that it should be right, it's a very simple thing in that it is very much a game of copycat all the way to the top. Most of the problems that you will see have been solved. Most of the things that you're worried about in scaling have been solved. But it's the courage to seek help right. Most people don't, for fear of rejection. Uh, which is a thing in itself.

Speaker 2 13:45

My favorite word in the english language is not okay. Statistically, 80 percent of deals happen after the word no. Um. All of the best things in my life have been given to me because I've embraced the word no like. Have you ever had it where you're in a conversation with someone? They're like I get this. All the time they're like you're so happy, what do you do? And I don't say some title or anything like that, I'll literally tell them. I get told no, with a positive attitude, and they look like I'm a crazy person, and and then I'll say have a great day.

Speaker 1 14:21

I love that. But how did you get to that point Like, are you naturally wired to be okay with rejection, to be okay with the word no, because most people aren't.

Speaker 2 14:32

My goodness, naturally wired, okay. So what's interesting about rejection? Whether it be to face over the phone right on a zoom, when you receive rejection, it actually fires the same portions of the brain as getting punched in the face. You, you experience the same chemical reaction in your body. Crazy, right, but in most people it triggers one of two things. If you were to get punched in the face, which would be fight or flight, most people are not wired for who are the best at it. We're actually the complete opposite. They were wired for flight.

Speaker 2 15:26

You can probably tell I'm like a diehard boxing fan, right? I know a lot of people who are fighters and you talk to them and they're like no, I hate getting hit, but you can think that they're the ones who are like. You know, so many things in life are are the opposite of what people assume. But where I'm going with this is that for me, I saw people who had so much charisma and were living a life in which no one was telling them from day to day what they're worth, and to me that's important and I want it to be like that. So I had a goal where I didn't want to feel that feeling of rejection, because when you're smiling with pain behind your eyes.

Speaker 2 16:23

right it's so obvious, right, but your attitude is a muscle. So I accepted the fact that in order to toughen my mentality, same way as growing a muscle, I'm going to have to tear it. Okay, so, day after day, you know, know, I was in a sales room and you know they'll go around the room what are your goals? And these other people would say you know, I want to do this today, this today, and they would get to me and again, I all I would say is today, all I want to do is break my act. That's it, that's my one goal is to push myself until it's gone through rejection.

Speaker 1 17:03

And.

Speaker 2 17:05

I'll even do just rejection for fun.

Speaker 1 17:09

Let's hear about that, Alex Rejection and fun in the same sentence.

Speaker 2 17:15

My wife she's just sometimes she'll be like, oh God, but just asking some ludicrous question. Where we are, Like we were at the zoo here in Nashville and you can pet the kangaroos, right, and there's a whole group of people and everyone's having fun, Can't believe they're gonna pull the kangaroos. So I'm petting a kangaroo and I raise my hand and I say, hey, can I pick it up? Right, they already said like you can't, but like you can't. But what'll blow your mind in life is you'll never get what you don't ask for. You can't sell a secret at the end of the day. But sometimes, when you ask crazy things like people say yes, but for me it's now kind of become a philosophy where anything that's because we all get curveballs in life right, With family, with personal, with work, with relationships. It's really given me an edge, I guess, in perseverance, in that I can always just say just another no.

Speaker 2 18:19

That's right I just keep going, that's right. So what do I do? I just keep going.

Speaker 1 18:22

That's closer to your next yes.

Speaker 2 18:26

Humans adapt to anything right. People are living in Antarctica right now, like people are okay.

Speaker 2 18:33

So for me, that was my goal is, I wanted to get to a point where I could carry myself, how I viewed these other people right. I wanted to have that charisma, that ability to connect with other people. And first I had to get over that right and it was through. Like I said, that game of copycat you know, because a lot of things in sales you know. If you're struggling or you're going through a slump or you've plateaued with your business, okay, it's not necessarily needing to learn new information. Oftentimes it's simply a reminder of the things that got you to where you were in the first place. Right, but a few conversations that really changed me. So a little background on me.

Speaker 2 19:29

So I went on being a professional golfer. So when I was like five years old I was 19,. Like that, I was just laser focused. I've always had the focus, but I didn't have the other components to do what I do, and the ego is a wild thing, okay. So I entered my first sales position when I'm 24 and I was about 30 days into it and then I almost got fired. This guy calls me into his office and he says you know what your problem is, alex, you don't even know how to think like a winner. Get out of my office, what no?

Speaker 1 20:15

Did you agree with that?

Speaker 2 20:17

I got out of his office. At that point I was still. I was a different we're all a different human being every three years anyway but a whole different person. But then something happened. So, as you can imagine, I walk out of that room and my ego immediately kicks in and I'm like he doesn't know me. I've accomplished this and this. You know, screw that guy. And uh, the next day I go out into the field and I'm like, demoralized and like right, and I had a moment. I remember where I was. I was working in San Diego, on Rancho Penasquitas, and I was in this business plaza and I'm like holding on to products and I'm wearing a suit and like just your classic, you know. But of course, the guy and the moment I had was a moment where I was like what, if he's right?

Speaker 1 21:15

Hmm.

PR for Purpose-Driven Brands

Speaker 2 21:18

What if I don't know how to think like a winner? Okay. So in this moment, if I don't know how to think like a winner, okay. So in this moment, if I don't know how to think like a winner, all that I'm going to do today is allow myself to think the word win all day long, because I don't know what I'm supposed to be thinking. Because apparently, what is right Okay no joke is right, okay, no joke, dr Kelly.

Speaker 2 21:45

So that day I hit what's called like ringing bell it's where you hit a certain metric, okay. And then I set the national record of the most consecutive days that had ever been done, in 54. And then I broke my foot Different story. But people were asking me they're're like how are you doing this? And I was embarrassed to tell them right, because that's all I was doing all day long. In hindsight, it's very easy to understand what happened. Was I eliminated all negative thought right? All of a sudden you're walking taller, you, you're talking different, you're bringing yourself you're having fun the ability to control your mind. But it was kind of through that process that the whole fear of rejection just goes away. And then, once you really dial in your skill set, that's what allows you to be present in a conversation, to where you don't feel rushed, to be thinking about what you're going to say and you can make it enjoyable for both of you.

Speaker 1 22:48

Um, I don't know, that was all kind of an odd tangent, I'm not sure no, that's okay because that tells that you like you, you care about you know the last thing that you said, that you actually care about who's in front of you, right, and I think that is part of sales and developing that relationship. But it's interesting that, because of what somebody said to you, you could have taken that in two different directions. You to take it, and I am going to, you know, take what was just said to me and put a positive spin on that. Now, whether or not your boss did that on purpose or not, because he knew that you would do that, or, you know, to get you going, I don't know. Do you happen to know the answer to that?

Speaker 2 23:40

I wondered about that. It's, like you know, because he knew a bit about my background like was that just him being seasoned and right and said he knew I needed in the moment, or was it?

Speaker 2 23:53

I don't know for good but, yeah just two things are often holding people back it's fear and ego. If you can have that simple paradigm shift of I don't sell, I help you. You know I don't. It's more than likely, if you're listening to this, why you started your business in the first place a product or service. Maybe you had an idea that solved a problem for you in the moment and then you decided, hmm, there's probably people, other people, that's right. There's a million tips and tricks and getting in front of the right eyeballs and doing that. That's what I do for a living. Now.

Speaker 2 24:39

A lot of the time over my career has been spent in different facets of media and digital ads. I've worked in print, I've worked in radio, I've worked in billboards, I've worked in the mobile ID trackers All facets. Why I landed in PR is I mean I know firsthand that just dollar for dollar visibility purposes, having evergreen marketing materials and letting someone tell their story which then ties in with your consumer and giving them that platform. It is the most effective form and people look at media. It's just the eyeballs of that media outlet in that moment. Right, that's not the power of pr.

Speaker 2 25:28

You know, let's say you're on. I mean we do everything from. You know, good morning america today. Show to you, know forbes, business insider to everything regional, fox, abc, cnn, to even hyper-local. Well, now, you'll never not be the business as seen. So now it's on your website, your thumbnails in your newsletter, your social media posts, super excited to be featured in XYZ. See our thoughts on this. But cementing yourself as a thought leader, a go-to figure of authority, you know, again, it's all the same, it's all the same thing. But hopefully, if that did give you the irk right, you're still viewing sales as a tool of I'm going to get someone. Yeah, the reality, if you're the right fit for this profession, right.

Speaker 1 26:32

And just because somebody says no to you, does it mean I mean that could be just not right now. I've had many, many no's where people have come back and it's okay we don't know what's going on in people's lives that's right their dog just got hit.

Speaker 2 26:50

They're going through a thing. If they being at work, who do they take it out on?

Speaker 1 26:55

in general, that's okay, yes, but yeah there's an art to it's.

Speaker 2 27:04

Yeah, there's an art to it's. A sales pitch Isn't a pitch. It's a guide to a conversation that allows you to bring the most value in the time that you have.

Speaker 1 27:17

A guide to a conversation. See, all these things that you're saying are totally opposite of what people typically think of with sales. And then you know, in your bio you talked about how you've amplified over 400 plus purpose-driven brands globally. So when you, when I see purpose-driven, it always piques my interest. So when you are working with people, why don't you talk a little bit about who you work with and how you see it as purpose driven?

Speaker 2 28:03

I love this question. Okay, so the media is notorious for trying to garner eyeballs through fear, negativity, failure of others. Right, these type of clickbaity type of things love using our relationships, connections to put positive stories into the media in a very big way, combating something which is traditionally negative. So, whether that be in health and wellness, sustainability, humanitarianism, oftentimes brands will want to have some sort of component like that for their brand that they don't really know how to develop for a cause that they're passionate about, and they'll say, hey, can you guys help us? You know, develop this component to helping.

Speaker 2 28:57

I mean things as powerful as you know, like child trafficking or cancer research or you know these type of things like using your powers for good yeah, it's. This thing was when I'm training people, I'm saying like this is very powerful. You know, learning to steer a conversation in a direction, toward an outcome. Right, like use it for good. But we love, yeah, putting those type of stories where they should be seen and connecting them with the right audience. You know, telling a brand story in a way that resonates with the most people, doing the most effective call to actions. And it's difficult to do on your own sometimes because you're too close to it and it's easy to get that paralysis by analysis. You know we can just think into a hole. Um, so it's helping people dial in their grand story, getting them seeing where they should be.

Speaker 2 30:01

And then I just like the way that policy for good operated. I hadn't seen anything like it. That's why I call it home. It's only earned media opportunities. So it's not like where people view PR as a pay-to-play type of thing. Right, eliminated that. And there are a lot of other components to what we do that are unique, I guess, for purposes of today. I probably don't want to turn this into just talking about PR, but I like being the face or salesperson right. Being the face or salesperson right, something that, at the end of the day, I can master duplicate scale, knowing that, in the long run, once I've built a machine, it's doing something with a purpose.

Speaker 1 31:04

That's good. That is good. Well, alex, I'd love to give. Give you just what's the last word here, what's something that's that you would like to leave the audience with.

Speaker 2 31:16

That would be important for you to communicate to them if anything that I've said today resonates with you in a way where it's like, okay, maybe I am practicing on the people that I could be helping and I'm letting fear stop me from taking myself seriously. Sales is the engine of whatever we're doing, whether it's a nonprofit, whether it's like you need to be able to communicate effectively. So if you want help on that front, I often do that. But asalesmanagementcom that's where you can find social media handles. You're going to see all sorts of fun stuff behind the scenes from our new Nashville location as well. This year will be our 10 year anniversary, so we'll be having a party. So, if you follow, we're going to be inviting a bunch of people to come check it out. But publicityforgoodcom you can see case studies, who we've worked with, what we're all about as a team. So if you could use help on that front. But my message that I would like to leave at the end of this is yesterday doesn't matter, Tomorrow doesn't even exist.

Speaker 2 32:29

So today, you know, to the best of your ability, control the three things you can control and, at the end of the day it'll all come out in the wash and you'll become a happier human.

Building Effective Sales Teams

Speaker 1 32:51

That's right, excellent. Well, thank you you so much, alex, for really helping us change our our thinking on uh, on sales and sales leadership. I appreciate you, yeah, and until next time.

Speaker 2 32:59

There are business owners who are like, okay, maybe I don't want to do this sales myself and my time is better focused on these components of the business and I'm looking to either hire a sales team or start building one myself for those type of things. The expectations of a leader in sales are usually what gets skewed and where things go wrong in the beginning, and those first couple swings and finding the right person Now. Now, what I mean by that is if you can go into those relationships with the expectation that a new salesperson will do 200 of what I do wrong and 50 of what I do right. What I mean by that is the attitude that I show up with right, the pace in which I work, how serious I am about mastering my craft right. If I can keep that as an expectation, not only does it better me, which becomes contagious to the people around me, right but it will.

Speaker 2 34:13

I learned that lesson from a gentleman who I very much respected, what he had built in his life and his home and his faith, and it's served me very well. So, if that's something you would want to include, if someone is at that point, because you want to ultimately create things that are duplicatable, scalable. But having the proper expectations as a leader, which then sets expectations on you, is what will cultivate successful relationships, because if we do it incorrectly, what's scary is people don't understand the responsibility of the sales leader. Right, because you're giving someone the opportunity that could change the trajectory of their entire life, and I'm so fortunate that I got that, and there were people who invested time and energy and were an example for me, right? But now it's your turn, okay, so go into it with the proper expectations.

Speaker 2 35:25

The Give it the attention that it deserves and that person couldn't be like oh yeah, I tried sales once, it just wasn't for me. I think I'm going to go work at whatever when they could have had this amazing happy life of meeting new people and doing new things, but we decided to show up incorrectly repeatedly. You know, it's not saying you have to always be perfect, but that was a nugget that's helped me very much.

Speaker 1 36:00

I like that you are. You know you do have a purpose with your business and that's refreshing. It's not just because I I really liked everything that you said. Yeah, good stuff 10 years, huh, it's been more.

Speaker 2 36:22

I don't know. It goes fast 2014, so 11 now. Because it was like Valentine's Day 2014 was my first day Walked in that room. My suit was way too big for me and I was looking around. It was just like what are these people?

Speaker 1 36:46

Yeah, but you took a chance.

Speaker 2 36:49

You took a chance on yourself, yeah, and you grew from there, everyone's telling you you're crazy, you know, get something with benefits and this, and that you know about a year later they're like I knew you could do it. And then 10 years later they're like I don, you could do it, yeah. And then 10 years later they're like I don't know, it's funny. Influence is powerful. You have been choosing where you take it, yes.

Speaker 1 37:16

Yeah, but here's the thing. But everything that you talked about today with you know caring and developing relationships and listening and all those wonderful attributes of a leader, and it doesn't matter if you are a leader in this organization or if it's in sales. Those skills that you develop are super important.

Final Thoughts and Contact Information

Speaker 2 37:43

You know it's kind of all the same thing. Am I muted? Can you hear me?

Speaker 1 37:48

I can hear you.

Speaker 2 37:48

Okay, but it's all the same thing in that if you're in HR or you're in operations or you're in whatever, it is. I don't know. I see it as the ability to be worth following, the ability to be positively contagious, is so much more powerful than you put one of those people in a room of a hundred negative people. Guess what's going to happen to that room. You know, those are my thoughts on it anyway.