E84. Beyond the Screen: How Digital Dependency Reshapes Developing Brains

The digital revolution promised connection but delivered something more complicated. Social media now intertwines with our daily existence, and emerging research reveals disturbing patterns about its impact on developing minds.

During our conversation with Kerri Carswell, content creator for the Carolina Journal, we explore the neurological reality behind social media addiction. Those seemingly innocuous features—infinite scrolling, like buttons, notifications—trigger powerful neurochemical responses, releasing dopamine and oxytocin in ways that mirror substance dependencies. 

For adults, this creates problematic usage patterns, but for children with developing brains, the consequences can be devastating. The documented harms—disrupted sleep cycles, shortened attention spans, increased anxiety and depression—demand action.

"It's actually the second leading cause of death in North Carolina between the ages of 10 to 18," Carswell reveals when discussing youth suicide rates. 

North Carolina legislators are responding with groundbreaking proposals. 

Parents face unprecedented challenges navigating this landscape. When should children receive smartphones? How can we monitor usage without overreaching? What conversations should families have about digital wellness? Carswell shares both personal experience and professional insights to help listeners find balance in an increasingly unbalanced digital world.

Listen to understand what's happening behind the screen and how we can protect the next generation from digital harms while preserving technology's benefits.

Check out more on this and other topics from Kerri @ https://www.carolinajournal.com/people/kerri-carswell/

Transcript

Introduction to Social Media's Dark Side

Speaker 1 0:01

Well, welcome to Conversations where today we have Keri Carswell, a content creator for the Carolina Journal and has written timely pieces to include recent articles around social media and what North Carolina is doing to protect its youth. Welcome to the show, Keri. How are you today? I'm good. How are you? I am good. You're coming to us from North Carolina. As I said, How's your weather there today?

Speaker 2 0:28

Hot and humid.

Speaker 1 0:31

That's what I hear. I know, you know my family being up north, it's been hot and humid and we're used to it here in Florida. But I tell you we all like a reprieve every now and then. For sure tell you, we all like a reprieve every now and then. Well, today we're going to be talking about social media and you've done some writing on this, as I said, for the Carolina Journal. So congratulations on all you're doing there. That's amazing work. I'm proud of you. But it does seem like social media has a dark side, especially as research learns about what it does for the brain, and I know that you're passionate about that and about learning more about that. And addiction is real when it comes to social media. So when I say that, what maybe for the listeners, can you talk about? What does addiction look like as it relates to social media?

Speaker 2 1:27

Social media. There are certain features on certain apps, like infinite scrolling, like or comment buttons, instant notifications, different things like this that fuel the brain's happy hormones, dopamine and oxytocin. And so when you are in the development period as a teenager, those periods of development can be really sensitive for children who are faced with this booming social media network in our world. And so the addiction looks like this. The addiction looks like this staying up late, being unproductive, procrastinating, getting distracted very easily because it's right here at your fingertips and it's so easy for the app and the algorithm to keep feeding you what you want and I argue that it's just as addictive as a drug.

Speaker 1 2:26

Let's hear about that.

Speaker 2 2:27

So I've had a firsthand experience with social media addiction. It's still something that I'm working through. I find that it's really useful to delete the app for a week at a time, or a month at a time, or even if it's just for the day to get some work done a month at a time, or even if it's just for the day to get some work done, because it literally stops me from doing my day-to-day tasks, much like somebody who's dependent on alcohol or a drug. It stops them from completing their day-to-day tasks. It also can lead to there's research on leading to suicidal ideation and just overall unhappiness, especially in children and when we're in this sensitive period of development in adolescence, from ages 10 to 18,. We are being exposed to so many different elements of the world and this dark side of social media, as you put it, can be really dangerous and it might even result in some irreversible harms.

Speaker 1 3:27

Gosh, that's scary, I know. For anybody who's tuning in and listening to you, that is like my antennas are raised. I have, as you know, I have grandchildren and it's amazing that they know how to use technology at such a young age and what that is doing to their brains today and what will be the effects tomorrow of social media. I'm starting so early. I remember it was 2008 when I first got on Facebook. My kids were like you don't belong on Facebook, but I wanted to see what they were doing. And I feel like and don't belong on Facebook, but I wanted to see what they were doing. And I feel like and maybe I'm wrong I feel like the 2008 Facebook and social media platforms of you know yesterday are much different than they are today. What do you think on that?

Speaker 2 4:22

It's very true. It started as a place to share your life, to connect with friends, to catch up with old friends that you haven't seen in a while, and I still think that social media has some great aspects to it that are really good for connecting. Especially for some children who might like in the pandemic, it was a great resource for continuing connection, but unfortunately it drives antisocial behaviors. Even though it's called social media, it almost enforces that your phone is your friend, rather than making real world connections. And it's interesting.

Speaker 2 5:02

I can feel happiness or fulfillment just from looking at, you know, tiktok or Instagram or something, for hours at a time, and then I'll realize I haven't spoken to my family today, I haven't, you know, connected with a friend in a couple of weeks, and it's because I've been perpetually scrolling, and so the apps are changing, and the apps are specifically changing because they want to keep feeding you this addiction, this algorithm that's tailored to you. They put everything on there. I love watching cooking videos, I love watching cheerleading videos, and so they know that about me, they have this data on me and they use that for advertisement and for algorithm purposes, and so it's it's very dangerous and it's very different from what it was when it was first created.

Speaker 1 5:53

And when you talk about scrolling, I know that I've got caught up in it there's. And when it first started, when it first started knowing who I was and it was it was based on shopping. At the time, right, I was looking for boots. All of a sudden, there's boots in my feed and then it got really eerie, the more you know that I would be scrolling through things and what it was providing me to get me to click on certain ads and whatnot, and and that could be good and that could be not so good. And I know even my mother my mother, you know, was almost 90. Every night when I'm visiting with her, she'll be in her chair and she'll be scrolling through. It's amazing because she's learned different things, but she also falls into that category, just like you and just like me, where we'll sit there and we'll scroll and the time will pass, and the time will pass, and that's kind of a scary thing.

Speaker 2 6:54

Definitely.

Speaker 1 6:55

So how does social media affect children in comparison to adults?

Speaker 2 7:02

So children like I've mentioned the sensitive period of development children have a sort of dependency on what people think of them, whereas the developed brain, when the prefrontal cortex is fully developed around usually 22 to 25, it's different for some people, but usually once that part of your brain is developed, in adults that dependency is no longer so. On social media we get this instant gratification you get a like, you get a comment, you get hundreds of likes and comments or you don't. And when the flip side of that happens, when you don't get that instant gratification as a child it can affect you more deeply than it might affect an adult. I know that my parents are equally addicted to social media. They love scrolling on Facebook Reels and, you know, looking at things, because it's a whole new world that we haven't, you know, experienced before, that they hadn't experienced before, haven't you know, experienced before that they hadn't experienced before. So it can affect everybody. But the reason why it adversely affects children is because they're in that period of development where these parts of their brain, like I mentioned, the dopamine and oxytocin, those happy hormones in their ventral striatum, are really sensitive and it can lead to a heightened risk of suicidal ideation.

Speaker 2 8:26

And children are looking at social media as am I popular enough, Am I cool enough, based on the amount of likes and comments that I have, or just in general, like peer pressure can affect that too.

Speaker 2 8:43

Some students and children might not have social media because of the way that they're raised and then they hear their friends talking about it at school and it's this feeling of oh my gosh, am I not in with the cool kids because I don't have a TikTok account? Or there's so many layers to this and I think that's the biggest reason why it affects them adversely is because their brains aren't finished developing yet. They're just not. They haven't achieved their identities yet. They're struggling to figure out who they are, what they bring to the table to this world. I had a lot of issues with that myself in middle school, trying to fit in here and there and doing many different things to feel a sense of belonging, which is, of course, a part of, you know, maslow's hierarchy of needs. We have to belong somewhere, as it's human nature. So I know that was a long-winded answer, but there's so many reasons why it adversely affects children.

Speaker 1 9:39

It's too bad that we are relying on you know what other people are either liking or not liking. That gives us you know who we are and how we're going to bring ourselves to the world. And when you're talking about this little brain, who that is not quite to the point of where they can make those decisions and realize that I don't need a like, I don't need somebody to comment, but that is, that goes with maturity. And so if your brain hasn't matured like you're talking about and you talk about, you know, suicidal ideation, I know that there must be research on the actual suicides that are happening, that are going beyond suicidal ideation, because of social media.

Speaker 2 10:26

It's actually the second leading cause of death in North Carolina between the ages of 10 to 18. I wish I were. Yes, it's a huge issue and something that people my age need to be recognizing, as we're also affected by it. But we're kind of on the other end of, like I mentioned, identity achievement. I've been through four years of college, which is usually where you're exposed to different kinds of career paths and identities and who you can become and who you want to become, whereas children are, they don't have this guidance and then they have this dark, you know, black hole in front of them that just kind of sucks them in and it's. It's also an unfortunate, you know, showing of you know the standard, the beauty standard for young girls and especially based on what we see on social media with filtering and how you can kind of show yourself as a in a different light from what you might look like in the real world.

Speaker 1 11:29

So what is North Carolina doing Because that statistic is alarming? What are they doing to help the youth in your area?

Speaker 2 11:40

So there's two pieces of legislation that I want to focus on. House Bill 301 was passed in the North Carolina House and that essentially would ban anybody under the age of 14 from having a social media account, but only on social media accounts that I mentioned that have those addictive features infinite scrolling like comments, autoplay and so those apps would be TikTok, facebook, instagram, but not apps like Gmail or WhatsApp or YouTube. And then anybody the age of 15 or 16 would have to have parental consent to have an Instagram or TikTok account. And then House Bill oh gosh, I can't remember the number, but it was a Data Privacy Protection Act for minors. Remember the number, but it was a Data Privacy Protection Act for minors that essentially targets any social media app with more than 1 million monthly users would no longer be able to use the data for minors that I mentioned. That will tailor your algorithm to what you like and consistently feed you.

Speaker 1 12:55

That is wow. That is scary when I, you know, when I was talking about what I was experiencing with the shopping and the boots and whatnot, and then it was thinking about that for a child, right, that is scary.

Speaker 2 13:12

Especially when that child doesn't quite know who they are yet and what they like yet, and so they're looking at all kinds of things, and then these applications and these websites have their data and can use that against them. And so that bill passed as well in the North Carolina House, and the representative who sponsored that bill, wyatt Gable. He is 22 years old and the youngest ever state representative elected. I think pushing people my age and in Generation Z to talk about this is really important, and so I'm happy that the North Carolina House is doing something about that.

Speaker 1 13:50

Yeah, and I'm wondering, do you know offhand what other states are also kind of getting on the bandwagon with looking at this as a you know, something that needs to happen?

Speaker 2 14:01

Yeah, I don't know off the top of my head, but I know that as we've entered this new presidency, we've seen a huge federal outreach of we need to ban TikTok. This was a conversation that was happening from the moment the inauguration happened Well, actually beforehand, when President Biden's administration was going to ban the app. And TikTok, especially, is not an American-owned application, so there's a national security interest there and a danger to national security. But, yes, all across America this is an issue that's being addressed by the federal government and I'm sure many other states are looking at this as well, but North Carolina has to do something about this too and hopefully can lead the charge.

Speaker 1 15:03

What would you say to people who and and I'm just maybe I should ask differently like are there people who are saying that this is just outrageous and it's more of an overreach than the protection for children?

Speaker 2 15:17

It's more of an overreach than the protection for children.

Speaker 2 15:20

Yes, there are.

Speaker 2 15:22

There's an argument to be made about the First Amendment and you know freedom of speech and, like I said, social media fosters great, you know relationships and ability to express yourself online, which I think is very important.

Speaker 2 15:33

There are some critics who argue that bills like House Bill 301, banning children from having social media, doesn't allow them to tap into their creative side and that it kind of bars children from experiencing the same joys that some of these things on social media can harbor for them. But then, of course, the other side says well, look at the statistics. Children are dying, children are more prone to anxiety, depression, they have shortened attention spans, they're unable to regulate their heart rate because they're staying up so late and they're not getting enough sleep. They're not getting enough full REM cycles of sleep. So there is a lot of discourse about this, but overall I do think that the legislation proposed in the North Carolina House and overall, even federally, the implication of maybe doing away with TikTok or creating a system so that we can make these social media apps fun but not dangerous, I think it's an important conversation to be had and my hope is that our legislators in North Carolina will continue to lead that charge.

Speaker 1 16:48

Absolutely. What do you say about? You know the parents role. How does that come into play?

Speaker 2 17:02

parents role. How does that come into play? I, I personally think, uh, this shouldn't be an issue of the government. This should be an issue of the parent, but unfortunately, we have um parents in our, our nation that are not as involved in their child's life as they may think that they are, so it results in the government having to step in and, in my opinion, you're involved in your child's education. You're involved in what they're learning at school. They're also learning on social media. They are also witnessing unsavory content, and it could be anything from something that you know you just don't want to see when you're a child, or something that's explicit or that goes against your religion or your morals or any of those things, and so I think that parents really need to focus on.

Speaker 2 17:53

I got my first phone when I was gosh fifth grade, and that was like when Instagram just started, and I immediately went and downloaded an account and, gosh, I was like 10 or 11 years old and I've had it ever since, and there was no regulation.

Speaker 2 18:12

And this isn't to bash my parents, they're amazing but they just didn't know at the time. You know, they didn't know what this looked like, they didn't know what could be on there and it unlocked all of these endless possibilities, and so the parents have to focus on maybe waiting until students are in high school to give a phone, or giving them a phone that doesn't have access to social media. You know, obviously there's an important feature of being able to contact your child while they're away at school or just in general, and I, of course, agree with that, but parents have to step in and really put a focus on what their children are looking at. There's different parental guidelines that you can put on. I know you can do it on YouTube, but I don't know if you can do it on these other apps I'm talking about, like Instagram and TikTok, that seem to be driving the addiction in our youth population.

Speaker 1 19:13

I'll also add to that even though there are, you know, parental features, I've learned that there are still ways that children are seeing things with those parental features in place, and that is bothersome for me.

Speaker 2 19:30

Absolutely, and that's the part of these pieces of legislation that I think the Data Privacy Act is really getting towards. When you have fostered data from a person, no matter what guidelines or restrictions you can put on there, the app doesn't really care. The app will show you what the app wants to show you, because the app wants your money, they want your viewership, they want you to use it, and it's essentially profiting off of our youth's mental health, which I think is not okay.

Speaker 1 20:07

Yeah, that's not okay. Oh, this is a scary topic, Carrie. I don't know. I you know, like I said earlier, I worry about my, my grandbabies. So now, right now, you don't have children. I don't know if you'll have children in the future, but maybe what would it look like for you, knowing what you know? How will you maybe parent differently? And it could. It could depend on where we are at that point in time, because things change so quickly, but have you thought of that?

Speaker 2 20:38

I have, I definitely have, and I draw on my own experience with, like I said, getting my first Instagram account when I was, you know, 10, 11 years old.

Speaker 2 20:48

I think that if it were a situation where social media has stayed where it's at, if these pieces of legislation don't pass, if there aren't strict guidelines, if it's sort of the same issue still standing, I would definitely hold off on giving my child access to social media until they are at least in high school and have conversations with them. It's really important to to let children know not just I'm not giving you this, but here's why, here's why it's rough and and you know, you don't have to be as harsh as by saying it's going to make you want to kill yourself, but you can. You can express to children that it's a important thing to shield them from, and that it's an important thing to shield them from, and that it can make you not like yourself. And my biggest hope for our next generation is that they continue to find things that make them love themselves. And if social media is not one of those things, it would be my choice to not allow my child or children to be exposed to that.

Speaker 1 21:58

But it's only because you know we. It's crazy with social media and children. They can't unsee what they have already seen. Just like anyone, our brain is going to remember which is dangerous and and it's just understanding your experience, like you said. And it's just understanding your experience, like you said and how then can you in the future, when you do have children, or even talking to people who have, just like this podcast?

Setting Healthy Boundaries and Final Thoughts

Speaker 1 22:33

I mean you are bringing about awareness and knowledge from your expertise around this, both from a personal view, but also the research that you're doing and writing about, and so I just applaud that so much because we sit there every. I mean it's right here. Like you said, the phone is there, all the. I mean I've never had so many apps on my phone that I use them all. There are a select few that I do, and I think it's up to me and it's up to you and it's up to anybody who understands that your brain is being wired in a different way than it was created to be because of these things, and it's really, yeah, that's who knew, who knew way back when what today was going to be and, like I said earlier, what you know, tomorrows are going to be around apps and what social media has for us in the future so many life hacks on TikTok that it's too many to count, and I love that side of social media and I think that that should continue on.

Speaker 2 23:38

But the dark side of social media has to stop, especially for our children. Once we get into, you know, the fully developed brain, it's up to us. It is.

Speaker 2 23:49

Addiction is a huge problem in our nation, whether that be to our phones or to coffee, or to drugs and alcohol.

Speaker 2 24:01

It is so easy to allow yourself to do something that feels good but isn't right for you, and so there's this difference between the right and the good, and it's just the walk of life of navigating.

Speaker 2 24:13

What's right for me may not be, or what's good for me may not be right for me. What feels good may not be right. And so it feels good to lay down at night and open my phone and scroll and scroll and scroll, keep going until, oh, it's 1230 in the morning and I've got work tomorrow and I need to go to sleep, and then the next day I'm groggy, I have brain fog, I don't, you know, I can't focus, and so that's why I argue that this addiction is as dangerous as a drug addiction, because it impedes my everyday functions and it impedes the everyday functions of children, which is just a bigger issue, and the poor sleep quality. Like I, have been a night owl for a very long time, just how I am. I just like to stay up late. I'm not a morning person, but I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about people who are literally not able to regulate their heart rate, not able to produce melatonin, and that can stay with you for the rest of your life and maybe even affect how long you live.

Speaker 1 25:20

Yeah Well, there's a lot to this topic. I appreciate you. I'd love to give you the last word here If there's anything more that you'd like to share. What say you?

Speaker 2 25:31

Well, I would just like to say thank you so much for having me on today. This was a really important conversation. I'm glad you wanted to have it and to anybody listening in, I would just say remind yourself that anything that is easily accessible to you, like social media, can be dangerous. Take it in doses can be dangerous. Take it in doses. I set screen time limits on these apps, which is a feature you can do on iPhone. So I set, you know, an hour or 30 minutes on TikTok and an hour on Instagram, and sometimes I click, you know, undo, sometimes I do, but trying to take those steps to recognize, hey, I have spent more hours on my phone than I have connecting with my family, talking to friends, reading, writing. You know you don't want your brain to turn to mush, so remind yourself to take it in small doses. That's what I would say and just thank you so much for this conversation.

Speaker 1 26:37

Oh, you are welcome. Well, you've heard it here, folks. Keri Carswell, I want to thank you for coming on Conversations and until next time. You keep doing great things and we'll see you soon. Thank you Well. So much good information really yeah yeah, and it's just. I mean some of the things you said. It was like oh, he's getting goosebumps because it's scary, yeah, scary.

Speaker 2 27:01

I know, when I was writing this op-ed, it started with a bill, and then it started with my own personal experience, and then I did, you know, some external research, and when I found these statistics and all these different studies of how it leads to anxiety, depression and just an overall generation of unhappiness, I felt sad, and I still do feel sad about this topic, and so I hope that through conversations like this, we can bring awareness that you know and and you know, like you talked about really understanding yourself, and you know Absolutely and and you know, like you talked about really understanding yourself, and you know, the first step is always to admit, and so admitting that you know I've got a problem, I'm on this way too much.

Speaker 1 27:45

I've had to do that for myself and then just move on from there. And a lot of times it's just, you know, retelling myself. You know, no, you don't need to be on there for so long, or how many, how many? You know dog videos exactly today, golden retrievers, golden doodles and and all those things. You know, it's just what is the. They're all the same. You're not gaining any more information.

Speaker 2 28:14

No, you're not. You're not, you're just. You're affecting your sleep quality. You're, you're just in this endless cycle because there is no stop, there's no end and it's horrible.

Speaker 1 28:29

Oh well, I appreciate you. Like I said, I appreciate you, you know, saying yes to the conversation. It is important and I'm so glad that it was you who had the info.