Conversations for Leaders & Teams

E80. Begin with WE: A Conversation with Kyle McDowell

• Dr. Kelly M.G. Whelan • Episode 80

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In today's workplace, authentic leadership is the key to creating a culture of excellence. Kyle McDowell shares his transformative "10 We" principles aimed at guiding leaders to inspire their teams through trust, accountability, and empathy. Purchase Begin with We on Amazon or on Kyle's website: kylemcdowellinc.com

Join us as we talk about Kyle's best selling book and topics that include:

• Transforming from traditional management to authentic leadership 
• Importance of principle-based leadership 
• Building trust through open communication and transparency 
• The ripple effect of ethical leadership on personal lives 
• Navigating generational gaps with empathy 
• Embracing challenges and learning from mistakes 
• Nurturing a culture that values shared accountability 
• The importance of doing the right thing always 
• Inspiring a connection with team members for better outcomes 
• The necessity for leaders to engage personally and authentically

Connect with Kyle @ https://www.instagram.com/kylemcdowellinc/ https://www.tiktok.com/@kylemcdowellinc https://www.youtube.com/@kylemcdowellinc https://www.facebook.com/KyleMcDowellInc https://twitter.com/KyleMcDowellInc www.linkedin.com/in/kylemcdowellinc

BelemLeaders–Your organization's trusted partner for leader and team development. Visit our website to connect: belemleaders.org or book a discovery call today! belem.as.me/discovery

Until next time, keep doing great things!

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

All right. Well, hey there, and welcome to Conversations where today we have Kyle McDowell, who is a former Fortune 10 executive, turned inspirational speaker, bestselling author and leadership coach. Kyle is on a quest to create cultures of excellence and reignite leaders' passion and purpose. With nearly three decades of experience leading tens of thousands of employees as some of America's biggest firms, mcdowell's philosophy is rooted in his trademark principles the 10 Whees. While today's workforce is played with uncertainty and apathy, his strategy is simple Begin with we Welcome, and how are you today?

Kyle McDowell:

Hey, Dr Kelly man, I'm really great. Thank you for having me. Good to see you again.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

Absolutely. It's good to see you again too, and before we get into some of those 10 wheeze, I'd like to mention that the cover of your book has that you are a Wall Street Journal and USA bestseller. How does that happen?

Kyle McDowell:

I don't know, I mean I wish I had a better answer. So when I decided to write my book, I remember vividly having a conversation with my wife and I was. I told her, if I sell a thousand copies I'll be over the moon. And we have far eclipsed beyond what my wildest expectations were. I think we're just we're hovering right around 30,000 copies at this point. But the USA Today, wall Street Journal bestseller badges those came the first week of release when there was a bit of a rush.

Kyle McDowell:

And you know I wrestle, dr Kelly, I wrestle with sometimes sharing some sales numbers because it sounds arrogant or like I'm self-promoting and I'm really not. What it's told me is that there's a need for these principles, there is a need for a different way of leading, there's a need for feeling less apathetic about the work environment in which you operate. So that's what fuels me now is knowing that these principles are landing, and they're landing in a way that is helping people kind of transform their position as a boss into a genuine leader. People kind of transform their position as a boss into a genuine leader, one that cares more about those around them than their own accolades. And then, of course, when we do that, naturally we benefit as well. So it just fuels me now the sales numbers.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

Yeah, well, and I think you're absolutely right. I mean, those numbers show that there is a need and it is principle-based leadership, right? So which could look a little bit different. So, when you think about that, what does that mean to you, principle-based leadership, compared to all the other leaderships that are out there?

Kyle McDowell:

Yeah, I love that you asked that question, because I do think there is a bit of a difference between someone who's led at scale as you mentioned in the bio tens of thousands of employees at really massive organizations to authors or frameworks that have not done it. I do think experience matters, and when we talk about principle-based leadership, let's remember a principle, by definition, is our fundamental system of truths or our system of beliefs. That's, that's the definition of a principle. So what I? What I learned and I stumbled on it because I led for 20 plus years with no leadership principles. I just the old command and control kind of banged my fist on the desk style, you know, results at all costs was essentially how I operated until I operated, until I stumbled upon principle-based leadership, and what I learned is when you establish leadership principles, like the things that are non-negotiable, what is my foundation of beliefs as it relates to being a leader? When you align a group of people, a team, around a series of principles, they become almost like a code of conduct, and they become a cultural currency. What matters most though or it's all dead on arrival, has no chance of sustaining is if the leader him or herself don't live them. They don't live the principles. And that's where I think a lot of us, including me, have gotten in trouble. It and say, hey, here's who we are, here's how we're going to operate, I want us to be known for these things. And then I'm behaving in a contrary fashion. You know, 30 minutes later in a different meeting. It's hard for people to trust and follow that.

Kyle McDowell:

So when I established these principles, I shared them with my team at the time, the top 40 or 50 leaders of about a 10,000, no 15,000 person organization, and I kind of stepped back and I didn't force them on anyone. I just wanted them to know. These are the rules that you can expect from me, the behavior you can and the expectations you should have of me, and I'm going to hold you just as accountable. But I led first by saying I need to be held accountable to these. So now we have these principles that if you're on this team you have subscribed to them. You can't be on this team without saying, yes, I support the 10 wheeze, by the way, they're so simple, they're not super controversial. So if anybody were to say I don't subscribe to any one of those, you probably don't want them on your team anyway.

Kyle McDowell:

But I think, to kind of close out, the answer here is most organizations do, I think, a pretty fine job of onboarding employees to say here's how you do your job, here are the policies and procedures, the standard operating procedures, here is how you do the function related to the role that you've been assigned. But where most organizations fall short is establishing these expectations for how we treat one another, our expectations for making good on our commitments behind the curtain. For one another. How we treat one another matters a whole lot and our clients can feel that. So if we're high functioning behind the curtains, take care of each other, lift each other up, challenge each other to be the best we can be, our customers naturally feel that it's when we try to flip a switch and say we're one thing behind the curtains that we're not externally. Ultimately. Ultimately, those two identities will collide and the customer sees it.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

Absolutely. They see it. Everybody around sees that Right. So let's hop into some of those. Why don't you unpack some of your 10 wheeze there? What comes to mind first and foremost?

Kyle McDowell:

Yeah, yeah, I'd love to, but I must give this caveat I always I must twofold. First is, as I share a few of these, or all of these, your audience is probably going to say to themselves well, this is so simple, or I already do these things, and indeed they are simple, they're incredibly simple. Simple does not mean easy, that's right. Like we know how to lose a bunch of weight, we know how to put on muscle, we know on muscle, we know how to do all these things. They're simple but they're not easy. They take commitment and discipline and so on. So simple is not easy. And then the other is as I share them, I think it's really important.

Kyle McDowell:

This has been an unintended byproduct. That's been so fulfilling and heartwarming to me is the impact the principles are having on readers' personal lives, me included, actually, and I never intended these principles to transcend the workplace, but it turns out shocker that if you're a good person and you take care of others behind the scenes, take care of those kind of in your charge in a work setting, you could probably do the same in your personal life. But we have to commit to not being two different people and I think that's where a lot of us fall short is behave a certain way inside the workplace than we do outside. And then there's this hypocrisy, at least in my brain, that creeps in and says dude, you're not being authentic, you can't be trusted on either side. So as I walk through them, remember these are for life. They can be just as important and impactful in our personal lives, and probably none more important than the very first we, which is non-negotiable like the rest of them, but it sets the foundation.

Kyle McDowell:

We do the right thing always, and I never leave out that one word, second sentence always, because in business and certainly most aspects of our lives, there's a lot of gray and making the right decision or doing the right thing is tough and identifying what the right thing is tough, and I walked the reader through kind of some models to get there. But if we can't align on that, then everything else is a house of cards and it's going to tumble. So we're going to do the right thing, regardless of who's watching, who's not watching, regardless of who benefits or doesn't benefit. We're going to do the right thing. And then they kind of expand and grow upon one another and I'll just run through them without a huge summary of each, but they kind of stand on their own once we realize where they sit in all 10. So we go from.

Kyle McDowell:

We do the right thing always, and for me, the number one, primary way that I can demonstrate, as a leader, that I'm committed to doing the right thing is to lead by example. The question is not. Should I lead by example? You already are. You're leading by an example. The question is do you want that example to be replicated? Is it something you'd be proud of? You want to see other people behave in a similar way. So you've got to set that example for others to say this is the standard, this is how we behave.

Kyle McDowell:

And to demonstrate my commitment to leading by example comes with number three. We say what we're going to do and then we do it. It's that simple. When we make a commitment to a customer or someone outside of the work, outside of our work team, you know the, the expectation and understanding is we'll deliver on that. Well, it should be no different for us behind the curtains. Kelly, if I promise to get you an email by five o'clock, you're going to have it, and if not, you're going to have it, and if not, you're going to know well in advance.

Kyle McDowell:

I've been I think we all have been so frustrated throughout our careers where, you know, a different functional department was responsible for giving me something that I needed to take somewhere else, maybe to a client or to the board or someone more senior in the organization. When that domino doesn't fall, the rest don't fall, and then we're all. We all have egg in our face at that point, so we've got to make good on our commitments. To do that leads us to we number four it's we take action. Taking action and making a mistake is completely fine, but being idle and doing nothing is unacceptable.

Kyle McDowell:

So when you see things inside the team, inside your organization, that need attention, we don't just turn a cheek to them. We surface them. We may not address them right away, but they're certainly going to be a part of an inventory of things that we want to get better at or approach. The TSA says if you see something, say something In a culture of excellence. If you see something, we do something. We don't just let it sit idle. If you want people to take action, though and you know this better than anybody is we've got to be prepared for mistakes, and we need members of the team to recognize mistakes truly are an opportunity to get better.

Kyle McDowell:

They really are right, it's okay. It's okay to make mistakes. That's why this one's so important. If you don't own the mistakes and that's we number five we own our mistakes. If we don't own our mistakes, we can't learn from them, we can't get better, we can't create new policies and procedures to ensure it doesn't happen again. So we got to be open about our mistakes.

Kyle McDowell:

I like to be tough on problems, not tough on the people that discovered or created the problem. Even when we own our mistakes, we must follow that with we number six, which is we pick each other up. I think it's every one of our human obligations. When someone's down struggling maybe they've got a sick kid or an ailing parent or whatever's going we all bring baggage to work, right. So when we bring that baggage to work, it's important for each of us to remember that we all have that baggage, Whatever it is for each of us is different, but we're going to pick each other up.

Kyle McDowell:

And I think it goes a step further for those in a position of authority or leadership role. We've got to lift others to new heights. So, members of the team that want to do more, even outside your team, it's an obligation, as the leader of that team to help position them and enable them to be better than they were yesterday, and even if that means leaving your team, that's the right thing to do. We're biologically wired to help one another, but over time the workplace has said no, no, it's more of a dog eat dog. We're not going to help each other, we're just going to be the best we can individually and let our accolades take care of the rest. But I don't see it that way. I think we have to lift each other up when they're down, and then we also have to lift them up when it's time and they want to go do something different on your team or out of your team. And then the last handful, last four, become a little more difficult and direct.

Kyle McDowell:

And it starts with we number seven it's we measure ourselves by outcomes, not activity. I don't care how many meetings you were in, I don't care if you were double booked or triple booked. I like to set an expectation and get out of the way. It's like Dr Kelly. Here are the lists of things that are that you're responsible for in the role that you hold. Do you understand all of them? Yes, what do you need from me? What barriers can I remove? How do I enable you to be your absolute best? What can I do as your leader? And then after that, I'm only going to judge you by the outcomes. If it takes you four or 40 hours, it's irrelevant to me, because we've established what the expectation is when you're going to deliver, the quality of that expectation, of that delivery. So I like to say I'm really happy that my Uber driver stops to get gas before they pick me up, but I'm not paying for that. I'm paying to get from A to B. That's how the real world operates. We pay for outcomes. Matter of fact, if our clients knew how much time we spend kind of shuffling from meeting to meeting, with really no discernible outcomes, and how much, how many calories we burn on things that don't add value to what they've bought or what they're going to buy, or the service that they purchased from us, They'd be they'd be probably frustrated. You know why are you spending so much time on things that don't add value to the product that I care about, that I'm buying?

Kyle McDowell:

My favorite of all the principles is we number eight. We challenge each other. I think the old model, their weight. We're going to do it Now. It's got to be diplomatic and all challenges must be grounded in either data or experience. Otherwise it's your opinion and there's probably no real way to get to the bottom or what's the optimal outcomes if we're just casting opinions. So we've got to use facts and data. If we're going to live with number eight, we must subscribe to we number nine, and that's.

Kyle McDowell:

We embrace challenge, Whether those challenges come from external forces, the boss's boss, management, whoever it is. But we're going to embrace challenge, we're going to look them in the eye and we're going to be galvanized by them. We're going to be realistic and say this is really tough or this might require some extra hours, it might require more manpower, but we're not going to shy away from it. We're going to galvanize and lock arms and we're going to address it because we know together we can overcome just about anything, Individually not so much. So we're going to embrace challenges. It's incredibly important. They're all learning opportunities and they fuel our growth. And then the last one is pretty simple, but it's purposeful. I was purposeful to leave it as number 10 because I think any earlier in the list it's going to be a recipe for disappointment.

Kyle McDowell:

We number 10 is we obsess over details. Details are what makes or separates good from great and great from excellent and excellent from world-class. Those details, they really matter, and it's typically in most spaces, most industries, the smallest of details is what determines the path the consumer takes. Do you want your product manuals littered with typos and bad grammar or do you want an Apple experience where the sticker telling you which direction to pull, that sticker to open this box that is so snugly put together? You know they put engineers in rooms for months on end, literally months on end, just to design boxes, Because that unboxing experience says, and it communicates the level of detail and concern that we have for the product you just purchased and it instills trust. So we're going to obsess over details, not perfection, but we're going to obsess over the little things that others might not. That's going to make us excellent and create our kind of, create the distance between us and those with whom we compete. That's the 10 weeks.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

And I love every single one of them. And you said at the beginning how you know you're going to find that they are simple, and they are simple, like, when I read those, it's like these are so simple. But then I see, bringing it even, you know cause my wheels started turning about. Okay, how would I use this, you know, for a team, and it would even be being able to do an exercise with them, you know, pointing them and saying where are we really strong, like which we are, we are we really strong and where might we need to spend some time and really unpack that?

Kyle McDowell:

And that's exactly so. So we have a workbook that goes with the book. Yeah, really, it's really cool. So it has this reflection periods and experience periods and, you know, a lot of interaction, and so we we sell that as kind of a standalone. But also many times I've had clients say hey, kyle, can you come lead us and walk us through this? And I do exactly what you just said. Let's get them out on the table. Everybody understand and become intimate with them and let's be really open and vulnerable about what we have an opportunity to be better at, versus hey, we're pretty good at this, let's keep this going.

Kyle McDowell:

And that dialogue, it creates a nomenclature almost. It creates a different vernacular inside of a team. It's like hey, dr Kelly, you've been struggling with X, y or Z and we challenge each other, right. So I'm here, I'm gonna pick you up, but I need to understand you know what's, what's behind this challenge. It creates, it allows kind of opening sentences or premises to be. It makes it easier to have awkward conversations. When we're all subscribed, we all know what we have to get better at, those that we're not so proficient at. And it gives us these guide rails, which I think is so lacking in so many organizations.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

It's interesting that you mentioned that about. You know those, maybe those, some of those conversations that could be difficult, because you I think it's in number six where you talk about your conversation with Robert and you were a young director at the time and so there was this generational difference. Right, I'd love to hear maybe you know that is so practical, you know, but I'd love maybe for you to say a little bit more about that and how you know we are with all the generations that are in the workplace now how really to help a leader, regardless of where you are, if you're a young director, like you were, and you were talking to somebody who wasn't so young, why don't you say a little bit about that?

Kyle McDowell:

Man, you've done your homework and I appreciate that. The story you're mentioning happened when I was in the book I was probably mid-20s at best. I led a group of I don't know eight, 10 people I don't remember the exact number but a member on the team, a guy by the name of Robert at the time, was probably late 60s Vietnam War veteran. We could not have been more different. Someone to whom I couldn't relate but of course had an enormous amount of respect for him, and he wore the veteran experience on his body. He walked with a shuffle, he was a little slower probably than he was earlier in his life, like he had some scars and typically was a pretty good performer just kind of a quiet guy, stayed in his own lane, just banged out reports, whatever it was that we asked him to do Great guy actually. But I noticed that his performance started to slide and I knew I needed to have a really tough conversation. And when you're 25 and you need to sit down with a guy in his late 60s to tell him he's not cutting it, I think there are two paths. I think there are two paths. The path that I took. The first I took more often than not, I should say is you know, hey, your results are down, get them up. Or else. Or you just ask hey, what's going on? Man, you know, I've noticed you were at, you've been performing here and lately it's kind of slid to here.

Kyle McDowell:

So that experience with Robert. I pulled him into a small little conference room he didn't have an office at the time and just kind of asked a lot of questions before I pounced on the poor performance. Turned out he was dealing with a very, very sick spouse. His wife was ailing. So of course his performance would suffer, of course his engagement would suffer. But the highlight of the whole story and I'm really grateful you gave me the chance to share it is after, kind of. I mean, I had to be vulnerable, I couldn't be the boss. I had to just ask another human being what was going on, why he was struggling, and at the end of the whole he opened up more than I expected.

Kyle McDowell:

At the end of the conversation we stood up, he reached across the table and shook my hand and he said I respect you. And I said that's great, robert. Okay, cool, he goes. You know why I respect you? I said no, he said because you looked me in the eye when you shook my hand and it sounds kind of I don't know, trite or even trivial at this point, some 20 years later. I'll never forget it, like I remember it, like it was yesterday. But also there was a connection between two humans that transcended a work relationship, where someone wasn't cutting it and someone had the authority quote unquote to do something about it. There's two humans connecting on something much more important, much bigger. His results turned around almost immediately because now the team knew he was struggling and knew he needed a bit of a pick me up. I didn't have the 10 weeks to lean on back in those days, but it was a really beautiful experience and I'm glad you called it out.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

Well, I and I and I love that because it is that, that human component that so many leaders I think that it's turning. The tides are turning a little bit. You know, like, like you said before, it's not. You know it used to be the command and in charge and beating your hand on the on the desk, but now it's more. You know it used to be the command and in charge and beating your hand on the desk, but now it's more. You know, human to human. And what is that? And how can we bring our people in, you know, to conversations and have them be authentic with us, and have us be authentic with them and really get to the root of what's going on. That's the goal.

Kyle McDowell:

That is the goal to the root of what's going on. That's the goal. That is the goal and you hit it. You hit the nail on the head and I'm sure your audience and anyone that's kind of anyone with a job knows that the workforce has changed the um, the way to be an effective leader has changed the workforce you know, for for decades, if not centuries, organizations were able to say this is how it is, this is who we are, like it or not, and you can work here or not.

Kyle McDowell:

Over the last decade or so, that has radically shifted. With the proliferation of work at home, with the gig economy, employees have way more options than they ever have before and they are flexing those options by the massive turnover we see in in a lot of organizations. In other words, I don't I don't necessarily have to put up with you, boss, because I can have a very similar role, making very similar money in a for an organization across the country. And, by the way, I can do it in my pajamas all day, in front of a desk or at home. So it is a different environment and to be an effective leader, we all must ditch this old leadership playbook and actually connect with those that we lead and when we connect, there's trust and there's so many outcomes that can be found well over and above just this boss-subordinate relationship that we all kind of grew up with.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

Now creating that space is imperative to having those conversations. That story really touched me. And then the other piece where I think is changing more is you talk about understanding how the sausage is made, which I don't think that people really understand the importance of that.

Kyle McDowell:

And so that, yeah, so when I, when I found myself in these rooms with these, you know, influential, important leaders, and they would ask me a question about hey, how's your team going or how's this working out, they would ask questions that made it obvious to me they had no idea what I did, they had no idea of the struggles that my team was dealing with, the struggles that I was dealing with, but they were being good citizens of the company and were, you know, being good humans asking questions. And when I juxtapose that with those that asked you know, you know, senior folks or really anyone that would ask a question, but you knew they knew enough to ask a good question, they understood, you know outcome, they understood the conflict that comes with some functional areas or departments, and I always left more motivated, inspired, that this guy actually knew what I was doing, this guy or this gal, this really senior person in the organization, they asked a question that told me they've done their homework, they've looked over our, looked over our numbers, or they they're, they have, they know how we do what we do, how we get the sausage out. So I just found it and some will disagree with this notion, dr Kelly, is that, um, you know, I don't need to get in their sandbox. I just, you know, I just need to know enough to lead them and answer questions. And I think that there may be true. That may be true in some environments, but when the when a team member senses, or outright knows, that I am connected enough with what they do to ask good questions, and that doesn't happen right out of the gate, right? You? Sometimes, if you're new to the role, you have to learn, but learning what it is that your team does and the struggles that they encounter, the hurdles that they deal with, the roadblocks, the noise that's in the way of them being excellent, how can you ever get that out of the system and out of their way, enabling them to be their best, if you don't know what they are? You must know the challenges that they face. You must know the struggles and the roadblocks and hurdles.

Kyle McDowell:

I think we have two jobs. As leaders of people, we have really two fundamental jobs. The first is to identify with the team, identify and remove as much noise, as many of the things that stand in the way of them being excellent as possible. It could be better training, it could be better technology, it could be a different schedule, it could be a work at home type thing, giving them more flexibility. You know, depending on the role. That's job one.

Kyle McDowell:

Job two is to inspire and motivate to deliver results in spite of the things you couldn't get out of the way, cause you're never going to get up. It's it's. It's called work. It's not going to be a walk in the park every single day. There are going to be things that we struggle to, to, to address and get out of the system. So, in spite of those that's when the we embrace challenge part comes in we're going to lock arms and say, in spite of these things that I couldn't get out of the way, we're going to be excellent. And if not, we're going to try really hard to be excellent and learn from whatever shortcoming might come. But you can't, you'll never get to that point unless you understand what it is the team does. What do your people do? You're not on some pedestal that says I don't need to know those details.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

You do need to know those details you do need to know, absolutely.

Kyle McDowell:

I love that question.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

Well thanks. Oh well, this has been an amazing conversation. I know that we could probably go on and on, you know, for hours, because you have just so much wisdom for what you bring. I would like to just ask At the beginning of your book, there's two things that I noticed, and the first one was about how sweet it was that you were inspired by your parents. And so this is you now, but maybe if you can just touch on what was that Like, how did they inspire you? Your work ethic?

Kyle McDowell:

So my parents were both so we were. I grew up middle-class at best, you know we weren't poor, but we weren't by any means wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, and both of my parents were lifelong career driven people. My dad was in sales, my mom began her career in sales, and both 100% commission-based roles. So if they didn't sell, we didn't eat.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

Oh my gosh.

Kyle McDowell:

Right. So you know, and I remember my mother. I remember my mother's schedule. You know she passed away a dozen or more years ago, but I remember every Sunday night the routine she went through to get ready for the week. I remember when she got home, every single day I'd run to meet her at the door and she would get out of that starched suit and be more comfortable. I remember her getting up early every single day, at least Monday through Friday, with enough time to sip coffee, get the kids ready and get out the door. But I never heard her complain.

Kyle McDowell:

So when I watched my parents really work hard I mean work as hard as anybody I've ever seen my mother had probably the best work ethic of anyone I've ever seen. So with that experience and then the way they raised me, so my favorite example is I'm a shoe nerd, so every year a new pair of Air Jordans would come out. I actually worked at a footlocker back in high school, but usually before that, especially through junior high, I couldn't afford $100 sneakers at the time. So my parents were always like we'll get you those Air Jordans, but you're going to have to work for it.

Kyle McDowell:

Okay, what does that mean? Well, I would find myself doing yard work for three, four weeks in a row before those shoes would come. In other words, I began to associate at a very early age the connection between hard work and and material things Like if you want this, you must, you must put in the work If you want to achieve that, or you want to go to this place or get these shiny shoes, no one's going to hand it to you. So watching them, but then also the way they taught me from an early age to connect effort with outcome, I think is is is exactly why I am who I am, um on, at least on the work front for sure.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

Well, thank you for indulging me with that.

Kyle McDowell:

Yeah.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

Yeah, I thought that was really sweet, and we all come from somewhere. It's it's not that you just wake up one day and it's it's who you are. You know there is, there is work, and Choices. Choices, absolutely Choices. Hardships, that's right. Are you going?

Kyle McDowell:

to let the hardships define you. We've all had trauma. We've all had really. I've had some really ugly things in my life. I really have, and sometimes they have defined me for small periods of time. But I think, no, I think I know the challenge for each of us is to make the choice to move on from it, get better from it, learn from it, stay away from it, whatever the it is. But that's a daily choice and what I found in the leadership world is it's also a daily choice. It's almost a choice you have to make in every interaction you have every day, because it's hard to be. A really good leader requires more effort, more work, more calories burned, probably longer hours than a manager. Yes, so if you make that decision, it's not a one time decision. I'm going to, I'm going to get promoted into this role, make more money. That's my decision. No, no, the decision comes every single day, almost every interaction.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

And it's not the critic who counts.

Kyle McDowell:

Well played, well played, well played. One of my favorites. Yeah, yes, so I've got the man in the arena speech at the entrance at the very beginning of the book and it just hits me on so many levels, not just work, not just leadership Right. Why do you like it so much?

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

I love it. It's in my book too.

Kyle McDowell:

Oh gosh, I feel terrible not knowing that. Wow, I didn't know that.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

That's okay. No, I love it. As soon as I saw I'm like, oh yes, yeah, it just like. I even have goosebumps just thinking about it, because it just it is so meaningful because as a leader, as a part as a human being, we're getting up every day and we are just, you know, there's battles, you know, like you talked about, we all have hardships and so, understanding that, you know you do the best you can with what you know and what you have in those moments. Yep, yeah.

Kyle McDowell:

And when you do the wrong thing unknowingly but you're aligned with your team on embracing challenges, they know you've got their back and they have your back, those missteps become so much more bearable and we get to the bottom lot. We get to better outcomes so much faster as well. But not acknowledging those hardships, the baggage, the trauma that each of us not acknowledging it is unrelatable. And if you have a leader or you're reporting to someone who doesn't acknowledge some of the things that you've experienced and what make you you, how can you trust that person? I don't want to be led by someone that doesn't know who I am. They just look at me as a number. I don't want to be led by that person. I certainly don't want to be quote unquote managed by that person. I don't trust them.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

That's right. Trust is essential.

Kyle McDowell:

It's everything.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

All right, mr Kyle McDowell, it has been a pleasure to have you on Conversations for Leaders and Teams. I appreciate you, I appreciate the work that you're doing and keep doing great things, and we'll see you soon.

Kyle McDowell:

Well, likewise, Dr Kelly. Thank you for the opportunity. You're doing really important work, but my to-do now is to pick up your book.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

So thank you for having me. It's got to be updated.

Kyle McDowell:

It's all right, though. It gives me something to chew on, so I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Kelly Whelan:

You're welcome.