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Conversations for Leaders & Teams
Welcome! Since 2020, the Conversations podcast has been dedicated to advancing leader and team excellence by exploring relevant topics that impact today's corporate, nonprofit, and faith organizations. Get social with us @belemleaders or visit belemleaders.org Check out Christian Coaching Magazine @christiancoachingmag on FB and Instagram, or christiancoachingmag.com
Conversations for Leaders & Teams
E68. Embracing Authenticity and Connection: Inspiring Leaders and Teams with Tony Martignetti
As I sat across from Tony Martignetti, it became clear that his story is not just about leadership—it's about the courage to reconnect with our true selves. Today, we invite you into an intimate conversation with Tony, a leadership coach with an unconventional path that wove from the arts into biotech, ultimately leading him to his calling in fostering growth and authenticity in the workplace. His insights on the transformative power of connections within teams are both profound and practical, and his CORE methodology promises to inspire leaders seeking to cultivate a culture brimming with innovation and genuine engagement.
Venture with us as Tony unveils the 'flash points' and his book, "Campfire Lessons for Leaders." Drawing from heartfelt narratives spanning over 200 interviews from his podcast, the Virtual Campfire, Tony illustrates the pivotal moments that have the potential to unleash our greatest gifts. This episode is a journey into the heart of leadership, exploring how our past experiences shape our future growth, and why embracing a value-driven approach can lead to remarkable transformations both in ourselves and our teams.
Find Tony's books on his website or on Amazon:
Campfire Lessons for Leaders: How Uncovering Our Past Can Propel Us Forward
Climbing The Right Mountain: Navigating the Journey to An Inspired Life
TED Talk: Don’t Check Yourself at the Door: How to Share Your True Self
BelemLeaders–Your organization's trusted partner for leader and team development. Visit our website to connect: belemleaders.org or book a discovery call today! belem.as.me/discovery
Until next time, keep doing great things!
Hi there, welcome to Conversations, where we seek to advance your leader in team excellence by discussing relevant topics that impact today's organizations. Welcome to the show. Welcome to Conversations, where today we have Tony Martinetti, a trusted advisor, leadership coach and facilitator, bestselling author, podcast host and speaker. He brings together over 25 years of business and leadership experience and extreme curiosity one of my favorite words to elevate leaders and equip them with the tools to navigate through change and unlock their true potential. He has been recognized by Thinkers360 as one of the top voices in leadership and by LeadersHome never heard of that as one of the biggest voices in leadership. Tony hosts the Virtual Campfire podcast and is the author of Climbing the Right Mountain leading the journey to an inspired life and campfire lessons for leaders how uncovering our past can propel us forward. He has been featured in many publications, including Fast Company, forbes, life Science, leader and CEO. Today, for all you strengths, enthusiasts, tony leads with futuristic ideation, connectedness, positivity and self assurance. Tony, welcome to the show. How are you today?
Speaker 2:I'm doing great and thank you so much for having me on. I'm thrilled about this conversation.
Speaker 1:And tell us where you're coming to us from today.
Speaker 2:I'm coming in from just outside of Boston, so a little suburb called Canton, the town of Canton, yes, excellent.
Speaker 1:Well, happy to have you on today and talk about the LeadersHome.
Speaker 2:Did I say it yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, never heard of that. So, yeah, you have done some pretty fascinating things and you continue to do it, and that's why you are on the show, because I'm going to pick your brain today.
Speaker 2:Just leave some behind, please.
Speaker 1:Okay, oh well, I appreciate you, and your work really focuses on that connection and navigating challenges, which I love, and I'm so glad that we're going to be talking about this today. So I'd really love to hear what led you here, like, how did you get here in the work? That you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that question because, when I think about it, connection and conversations like this is what I was craving from the get-go, and I think that was. You know, I didn't know it, but it was something that I in the long run. It's what led me here. But let me tell you the story that got me going. My journey started as an artist. I was an artist as a child and someone who really didn't necessarily do things the way other kids did. I painted rooms and environments that evoked feelings and emotions and other people, and that was the thing that people noticed about me the artists, the art teachers and teachers who saw me. They're like this is interesting, and not only that, but you're going places with this and I'm like cool. But eventually, as you get into high school and everything, the teachers start saying like, yeah, what are you going to do for your life? How are you going to make a living? And I'm like I don't know, architect, maybe, possibly.
Speaker 2:I eventually decided to go pre-med because that made a lot of sense, just to switch from being in the artist side of the brain to being in the side of the brain where you start to be more analytical and scientific, and so pre-med did not necessarily go according to plan, even though I did have an interest in science. So I switched into business because why not? And that got me to this place where I started to work in companies, particularly in the biotech space, which was an interesting connection to be able to bring two parts of who I am into play the business and the science and it was really rewarding. I was working as a finance and strategy professional for most of my career in that space and it was very rewarding, but also felt like there was a missing piece to it.
Speaker 2:I was trying to be this finance expert, this analytical person, and I think deep down I knew I wasn't that person, but I just kept on working harder and harder to be that person until I started to realize that this isn't going to work long term.
Speaker 2:I'm climbing the wrong mountain, as I would say, and I decided that I eventually needed to change the course I was on, and that led me to leaving the biotech boardroom that I was working at and deciding to leave the room to change the room, and that's what I did. I literally walked out and decided that I no longer wanted to be a cog in the wheel and instead wanted to create my own wheel and that's what led me down this path of jumping out, and I call it the leap to learn what my true future could be, and that's what got me into the space of being a coach and being in leadership development and all the amazing things I'm doing now, which in many ways, is connected to the artist that I was. So I feel like I've come back full circle to who I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because there is a lot of creating that happens in the work that you do.
Speaker 2:yes, yeah, and I talked about connection, and I'll say that I think of conversations like this and connections that we make are all very artistic and creative. We find ways to weave each other's narrative together and find ways to make connections that are not necessarily science, it's more art.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and it's really. I love how you had the courage to step out of something that wasn't quite you, and I think that that's really a message for leaders to be okay, if they feel that it's not the right fit, if it's not with their unique makeup, to step out of that, and that's okay, it's perfectly okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I also kind of think about it, as sometimes it's just reframing the place you're at in your current environment. It doesn't mean you have to jump out and start a new endeavor or go off on your own. It might just mean looking at your role from a different perspective. One of the things that came to mind recently is, if you feel stuck, maybe it's just a matter of having a bunch of conversations with other people to either A really ignite the spark about the role you're in or B find a new path, because you're talking to people and you're hearing some ideas that have you thinking, hmm, maybe that's a pivot for me then, maybe that's a path for me to explore. But through those conversations you might hear someone say, yeah, like here's what's exciting about the field we're in right now and here's where I see it going next. And you start to think, well, yeah, that's right, I forgot about that, you know. And you start to get double down on what you're already doing.
Speaker 1:That's good, excellent. Well, why is connection so important now for leaders and teams when we talk about them? What is it about that connection?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2:Oftentimes I find leaders are trying to do everything in a vacuum or feeling like they have to do it all on their own, and there's a sense of like I have to be the hero and I have to figure it out on my own.
Speaker 2:The reality is, the more we get to know the people around us, we start to figure out what do they need to be successful, to thrive. Everything happens to people and the more we know them, the better it is that we can connect with what they need, but also figuring out that the problems we're solving we don't have to do them on our own, that the more we engage others, we can solve them much more effectively together. So that connection is so important nowadays because the problems are getting more complex and I think that's what's really getting into this place. And you may say, well, ai is here to help right save the day, but it is to an extent, but not necessarily, because it's never going to replace the human element, and we need the human element and especially because there's nothing about nothing that AI can do to replace the emotional connection that we create with people.
Speaker 1:But you know I'm hearing you and especially one of your strengths. So connectedness is something that you are naturally good at. It's just something that comes naturally when I think about connecting and leaders and how they often are not comfortable connecting with people. Have you worked with leaders where it's like something because it's old school, it's like we don't connect with our people. It's just that you know they're there and we're here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you have all the sense of like. You know the introverts who have like I'm not really a person who gets up on stage and looks to you know, shout it from the rooftops if you will. But I think we have to do it in our own unique way. Right, it's about taking small steps and finding your own method for connecting with others and know that there's a real value in doing your own way. If that means one-on-one conversations, that's fantastic. If you prefer doing it in a group, then great, do that. But it does not mean you retreat into your, into yourself, and just allow yourself to become like a cocoon or like a hermit and allow yourself to close off. Because one of the things I will point out is that the more we connect with others, the more fine-tuned and evolved our thinking becomes, which is interesting. It's almost paradoxical. You think that the more you connect with others, then their ideas seep into yours, but the reality is you are thinking gets sharpened by being in contact with other people.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely yeah. I remember a conversation I had several years ago with a CEO and we were talking about, you know, about being the smartest person in the room, and he says I know I'm not and I don't want to be the smartest person in the room. He says I want to have a team around me who is smart so we can generate ideas and really, you know, come to the table with new thinking and be able to get things done. And I remember it's like man, we need more leaders like you.
Speaker 1:They don't have to be the smartest person in the room, they just need to have people around them and that goes, you know, wherever you are on a hierarchy chart, even if you're not on a hierarchy chart, right, absolutely. And that's bring people around us and have those connections and whether it's a leader who could be an introvert, or a people person that they're working with as an introvert, like you said, to really have those conversations and get to know people and what's important to them and for them.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and I think that's a great way to add to the picture is it's to them and for them, because it's not just a one way street. So I think it's great, awesome.
Speaker 1:So how can teams build better connections? What might that look like for a team?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, one of the starting points is starting with yourself. I think one of the things you immediately went to teams, but the idea is that you can't be in connection with others unless you've connected with yourself, and I think that's important is to understand, like, well, who am I really and how do I really make connection with others? What is my story, what's my narrative and how do I share from a place that's, you know, the, the overused term authentic to me. Sometimes we hold back a lot of things because we're afraid. For example, if, like you, come from a past, that is, you know you grew up poor or you grew up without a lot of things and you don't want people to know that because you feel like they might judge you. Or if you come from a broken family or you know they these types of things it might be something that you would hold back because you're afraid of judgment. So the key thing for you is to understand what is my narrative.
Speaker 2:Who am I? How do I define the? Not define yourself, because you don't want to put yourself in a box, but how do I make sure I get comfortable with who I am before I start to get out there and talk to other people about what they're all about and how do we get to know each other better? Because that's this, that's how this goes to the next step, which is get curious. Get curious about other people, but with compassion. We want to make sure your curiosity is not directed at like trying to other them or to try, and you know, say hey, you know you're different. Let's you know, I want to know why you're different and what have you. It's more about getting curious about what their experience is and where they're coming from and what's that like and all of that.
Speaker 1:And even asking permission to go there right.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Like yeah, and what I found and I grew up and it's like you know you had to have the perfect you know house with the picket fence and all that, and I remember keeping so much in that wasn't going right. And then when I learned, it's okay, yes, you're going to relate to other people. Somebody else is going to hear that message and, whether it was a man, there's always a message in the mess, right, and it makes you as a human being more relatable when people know you're not perfect. You don't have to be perfect. I'm going to love you anyway, right, and I want to get to know you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that you brought love into the story, because I think oftentimes that's a very taboo part of the equation, especially when it comes to work, but it's got to be there. I mean, there is a sense of people have to know that you're not going to hold something against them, that you're really there to you, know, care and love them. You know, no matter what is going on for them, because that, ultimately, is what makes a team even stronger, as when you know someone else there has got your back when you're going through a tough time. And we can't do that unless we get to know each other. Yeah, If you don't know the person next to you in the cubicle, then what's happening where the office next to you? What's happening is that you know the likelihood for you to be able to support them to a dark time or to you know cover for them or even, you know, collaborate with them. It's going to get lower and lower if you don't really understand who they are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what might be some techniques that you use to help people make those connections? What does that look like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I've described this in my TED Talk, which was published. Well, it was put out about a seven or eight months ago, but I call it the core methodology, and it's starts with curiosity Get curious about yourself and about others and then open up. Get open yourself up to being able to share with others. And then the R is release. Release any tension that you might have, because when we start to think we're going to share more about ourselves with other people, there's a reticence, like, is it okay for me to share this? Is this something that is worth sharing? And we have to release all that tension, especially if you're somebody who is an introvert, like I said. So, releasing that tension and that reservation, if you will.
Speaker 2:And then the last one is the E expand. How can you expand the circle? How can you make it so that it's not just two people getting to know each other, but the broader team, and make it something where the whole organization or the whole group can come together and start to get to know each other in a more broader context? So the core methodology is something that I put together and I've used it with teams and what's happened is I've seen a lot of really amazing things happen around innovation and just engagement with the teams, just because they've gotten to be more curious and open with each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love that you brought that up, because some of the teams that I've worked with as well.
Speaker 1:They're not highly relational and for them to go there it takes again, that takes courage for a leader to be open to going there and taking a look at everything that you just talked about, because many times for people who are the boomerage, like my age, we were brought up very differently and, as I said earlier, it's not what you do. You're there to do your work, you're not there to make friends, and so really helping people uncover as you do, and bringing that relational component into a team and the magic that happens, the surprises that happens when they start opening up and sharing and getting to know each other, is pretty fabulous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it's interesting. You mentioned that there's like that generationally. Generationally, we have come to this place where we work more than we ever have and because of that we spend more time in the workplace. So that means, if you constantly find yourself building relationships only through your work relationships and I'm not advocating for that or not, but I'm just saying that why not make it a place where it can be fun and engaging and fulfilling, instead of a place where you just have to go and robotically do your work and then go home and then that becomes the only place where you can become fully yourself? So I think that's part of the reason why we've come to this stage where you ask why connection is so important. It's because we're spending a lot of time at work and work has become such a big part of our identity that we need to make sure that that part of our identity is something we want to honor and appreciate and we love.
Speaker 1:Honor, appreciate and love, absolutely All right. So new book, yes, new book.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay.
Speaker 1:Campfire Lessons for Leaders. Tell me about that first. How did it come to be? What was the thought process with that, and tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. The third thought process was I had a podcast, and the podcast was something that was even a challenge in its own right, because I had never thought I would have a podcast, I wasn't listening to podcasts and then the beginning of the pandemic came and I was like I really have a strong desire to bring together people for conversations. And then, you know, as I was thinking about this idea, the pandemic just kind of created the need for me to make this happen in not in real life, but in the virtual life, which became the virtual campfire, which is the name of the podcast, and it was a one-on-one conversation that then we would share with the world. But I wanted it to be. You know, I chose campfire for a reason because I think it's an intimate place where stories have been told since the beginning of human history, and it's. These are not surface level conversations, they're conversations that are deep, intimate and meaningful, and so I focused on transformational stories through what I call flash points, the points in our journey that have ignited our gifts into the world. And so, after recording a bunch of these episodes, I'm now about 200, somewhat deep and I decided about a year and a half ago that I was going to. I need to put these out in the world.
Speaker 2:There were so many amazing people, from artists to business leaders, to thought leaders of all sorts, that I wanted to share some of their stories and do it in a way that actually captured the essence of the theme of the stories, and so I put together these 10 lessons that the book really is all about, and then, underneath it, I capture some of these key people who I've put into the book, which was a hard thing to do, first of all, because I wanted to make sure I captured their story well and I gave it the right type of honor, if you will, because I don't want to sugarcoat their story, but I also want to make sure that it's the note that it's posted to them to capture.
Speaker 2:And I also had a hard time deciding who to put in, because there's so many amazing stories. So that'll be maybe a part two at some point, I don't know, but yeah, so I digress. There's actually a book about these, these incredible journeys people have been on, but it's also meant to help other people think about where they're at and how can they create the power to look at their past and use it as a fuel to propel them in the future, because oftentimes we get stuck, because we only look forward but we don't look back and think what has gotten me to this point and how can I use that as a lever to move me forward?
Speaker 1:Reflection. Time is crucial, and I found that leaders are so caught up in the day to day that rarely do they do that unless it's intentional. Yeah, yeah, and that's an important piece to be intentional. And then what does that even look like? And it could be different depending on the leader, depending on the person or the team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I agree. I mean, and that's when, when you think about prioritizing, you know your things, the prioritizing the activities in a given business. Oftentimes it's like, well, what's going to drive the bottom line, what's going to drive the next dollar in the door? And I get that. But at the same time, sometimes the things that we prioritize or deprioritize are the things that are going to move us the furthest, and that is the understanding that the essence of who we are, as a company, as a person, and that can move us even further than we expected, that, I think, is, you know, as much as it seems kind of esoteric, it actually can be the most profound. I mean, just starting with values, if you truly know what you value, you can make much stronger decisions about what to do next, because you're making value based decisions as opposed to just, hey, this is the decision that makes the most money, okay, great, let's move forward. Don't always pay out that way.
Speaker 1:Again, it's that mindset shift, yeah, and if you're looking for transformation, something has to change.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, yeah. If you just continue to make the same decisions based on the same logic of you know this is more money, I'll do that, Then you'll get the same results, which is just, you know, continuing to run a cycle. But if you want to transform, you've got to think differently, which means slow things down and really consider what is the, what is going to drive value for me by knowing your value, which is play on a lot of value there. But you get the point.
Speaker 1:Yes, I do get the point, and it takes many times having someone come in like you to help with that Absolutely, absolutely. So what else about your buck? What else is?
Speaker 2:interesting. Yeah, I'll share one particular thing that I think is really important to understand is that not all events in our lives and flash points, if you will are negative or like life and death situations, like one chapter is about sometime out of darkness comes light, right, and I think there's a lot of people can see there's been moments in our lives that are really dark and through that we can grow. But there's also moments in our lives just that are choosing between two really good things and making a hard choice and in that you know, really experimenting with a new path, and I think that is just helping people to understand you don't have to have gone through like a traumatic event, but you have to constantly be thinking where am I? What's really important to me right now in this point in my life? Is it time for me to make a change?
Speaker 2:And so I share that, because as you read through the book or you listen to the book, you'll find that there's a sense of like oh, that's what he means by that Like I can disrupt my life in a positive way and create something very different. And when I say life, it's not just life, it's my leadership and the way I lead my business. So I want you to keep in mind this is a book for leaders, and your definition of leader could be very different. It could be a leader in your life, leader in your business, leader of a team whatever you want to define leader as, but it's very approachable in that respect.
Speaker 1:Because there's hope there.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I think that's what you'll hear from these stories. Is that hearing from other people who have done this and they're not all superstars meaning like the big time brand names out there in the world that it's possible? These are things that we can do in our lives to make a difference and, in fact, you might be already going through a moment like that, that you just need someone to give you a little bit of a push in the right direction to think differently about your own experience. That will allow you to say, yeah, I mean, I can do hard things and I can make it through this tough situation and, in fact, if I think about this differently, I could use this current situation of navigating and you can what?
Speaker 1:Yeah, get out of that tunnel vision. Our brain is this fabulous for doing that, for ruminating and going all to the bad things.
Speaker 2:Yes, you can do this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's a cheerleader for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What else is important?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2:The other thing about the book that I think is really great and it's interesting is it's not just about the book, it's about what it opens up is.
Speaker 2:We've talked about connection a lot and it's had me thinking about how the people in this book and the book in general it's about connecting with our story and ourselves, and then, ultimately, it's about connecting with others, and that's my call to action is really that you know, if you feel like you've gotten close to who you are, or gotten to know who you are, well, now it's time to start what I call campfires of connection, finding ways to connect with others and broadening the circle so we can have a more fulfilling life, so we can have a better understanding of other people in our workplaces and beyond.
Speaker 2:So, you know, I think that's my big thing is that I want to make sure that, through this book and through the fall on conversations, we start thinking about you know, where do I need to connect more with the people around me and have conversations to get to know them, now that I'm starting to think differently about my way of navigating and I think that connection is at the core of everything that I'm thinking about and that I'm speaking about now, because I feel like, even though I didn't know it at the time when I wrote the book and when I was navigating through my journey, in my work and life, it's become the central thing.
Speaker 1:And I almost in my mind, I'm envisioning a leader saying to someone else meet me at the campfire. You know, and it's just, it gives me that feeling because I love campfires and I love sitting around campfires and just chit-chatting, and I see that, and really having those deep conversations and necessarily have to be deep, but they can go there because the environment will allow it to be.
Speaker 2:Exactly. I think that's a great point. You know, you don't just kind of like walk in a meeting and say, okay, everybody, put your pencils down, we're going to talk about deep stuff. You know it has to be. It has to come from a place of, you know, setting the scene and creating a place where people feel safe. First, you know, maybe even some you know preamble of like, hey, let's, let's, you know, schedule us some time for a campfire to conversation on Friday, and so I'll sit around like not going to talk about the normal work stuff. I want to talk about what's real for everyone and have a conversation that goes a little deeper, and that will be something that allows it to be more of a scene setting as opposed to just normal course.
Speaker 1:And that may take time for people to get used to too.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I love, I love the analogy of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I would love to be able to point people to you and to your book. So how can we do that? Cause, we'll make sure we put that in the show notes.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Well. I appreciate it. So, first and foremost, the best place to find me is at my website, which is called iPurpose Partnerscom. The company's called inspiredpurposepartnerscom, but I just decided it was way too long of a URL. There you go so. So that's the website, and if you go there, you'll find a whole bunch of fun stuff there my assessments, my books and everything. But you can also find my book, my books wherever books are sold, including Amazon, and the book. My recent book is called campfire lessons for leaders and my previous book is called climbing the right mountain. You can also find me at on LinkedIn. That's probably the best place to find me. I'm pretty active.
Speaker 1:I found you.
Speaker 2:Yes, you did.
Speaker 1:And tell me the name of the TED Talk. So if people want to look at that, what is that?
Speaker 2:It's called don't check yourself at the door. How to share your true self.
Speaker 1:Okay, love it. I absolutely love it. All right, I'm going to give you the last word. What do you have?
Speaker 2:Okay, here's a good one. If you're feeling like you're missing out with in terms of connection with other people, look around and see if there's someone who you need to have a conversation with that you feel like needs to be had. So what's the conversation that is missing in your life? And have it.
Speaker 1:What's the conversation that's missing in your life? And have that All right, tony. Well, I appreciate you coming on today. Thank you so much for your wisdom. It was a joy to have you and until next time you keep doing great things.
Speaker 2:Much appreciated. Be well, bye, bye.